Looks like a 2217. I think they're great filters. Flow rate is a bit low but the design is a simple as it gets.
Build a Diatom filter from scratch
- Thread starter Paul B
- Start date
Paul B
Premium Member
Yes, flow rate was less than the smaller diatoms. The 2 main problems is that the pump is iron, the bearings are not great and the seal is a horrible design and doesn't last long at all.
And with all Vortex filters, the motor is at the top so a tiny bit of air, stops the thing.
And with all Vortex filters, the motor is at the top so a tiny bit of air, stops the thing.
I was talking about the Eheim, but sure.
Paul B
Premium Member
Oh, the Eheim is very slow and not powerful at all for such a large filter. It is much to weak to blow detritus out of the pores in the rock. Thats why it is on my shelf for 20 years collecting dust. Maybe I will grow a cactus in it.
My 10 year old Grand Son yesterday called my wife to say to her: "Grand Ma, do you know what I did today?" She said :No Teddy, what did you do?"
Teddy said, " I watched 2 1/2 hours of PopPop on YouTube talking about fish. And he has 15,000 followers". I never even knew he cared anything about fish, or me for that matter.
He also said: PopPop is the only one fast enough to catch a lizard" . (I once caught him a lizard) I probably fell on it.
I received the new 5 micron filter cartridge yesterday and hopefully will try it today. I don't think it will work exactly like I want yet but I did design the piece that should make it work perfectly. This new piece may be difficult for many people to build at home so I will try to simplify it.
I could make it with my 3 D Printer but that is a pain to set up and I think I can make the "prototype" one by hand faster, just not as good looking. If it works well, I may 3D print them.
If I ever had to manufacture these things (and I have no plans at this time to do that, I would have to have at least that part made in a factory.
The issue is that adding the diatom powder right into the housing like I normally do in a diatom filter, the powder falls to the bottom and turns into mud and resembles the make up on one of my old girlfriends who used to put it on with a trowel.
I designed a tube that extends to the bottom of the canister like the old diatoms had that will keep the powder in suspension while it is coating the bag. (Someone on one of these forums asked me about a tube and he was correct but I tried without it and it failed)
The problem is that there is only about half an inch of space between the cartridge and the housing so little room for the proper sized tube and no space to connect it to the inlet pipe. I solved that problem and hope to build it today.
There is a chance, and I will test it today that the powder will coat the cartridge if I slowly add the powder as the thing is running. But that is a pain and would have to be done in something other than the tank or powder will go into the tank. It can be done in a separate container but I am trying not to do it like that so I think I will have to build my modification.
Vortex used to sell a 4 way valve that was great but it is out of production and also difficult to build even with a 3 D printer (for me anyway as I am not that good at getting it on my computer so the printer knows what I am doing.
If I ever sold these things, I would also have that commercially built but the initial model would cost me thousands for the mold. I know because I patented the "Mojano Wand" and the tiny tip on the thing was maybe $10,000.00 and it costs about five cents to make (after you have the mold built.)
I am trying to simplify the thing so anyone, even my Grand Daughter could build it.
Yesterday I received a Rx from my Doctor. It is a little patch of what looks like Scotch tape and you stick it to the inside of your cheek. It dissolves in half an hour and is a narcotic. So if it puts me in a drug induced stupor, I should be able to design these parts easier.
My 10 year old Grand Son yesterday called my wife to say to her: "Grand Ma, do you know what I did today?" She said :No Teddy, what did you do?"
Teddy said, " I watched 2 1/2 hours of PopPop on YouTube talking about fish. And he has 15,000 followers". I never even knew he cared anything about fish, or me for that matter.
He also said: PopPop is the only one fast enough to catch a lizard" . (I once caught him a lizard) I probably fell on it.
I received the new 5 micron filter cartridge yesterday and hopefully will try it today. I don't think it will work exactly like I want yet but I did design the piece that should make it work perfectly. This new piece may be difficult for many people to build at home so I will try to simplify it.
I could make it with my 3 D Printer but that is a pain to set up and I think I can make the "prototype" one by hand faster, just not as good looking. If it works well, I may 3D print them.
If I ever had to manufacture these things (and I have no plans at this time to do that, I would have to have at least that part made in a factory.
The issue is that adding the diatom powder right into the housing like I normally do in a diatom filter, the powder falls to the bottom and turns into mud and resembles the make up on one of my old girlfriends who used to put it on with a trowel.
I designed a tube that extends to the bottom of the canister like the old diatoms had that will keep the powder in suspension while it is coating the bag. (Someone on one of these forums asked me about a tube and he was correct but I tried without it and it failed)
The problem is that there is only about half an inch of space between the cartridge and the housing so little room for the proper sized tube and no space to connect it to the inlet pipe. I solved that problem and hope to build it today.
There is a chance, and I will test it today that the powder will coat the cartridge if I slowly add the powder as the thing is running. But that is a pain and would have to be done in something other than the tank or powder will go into the tank. It can be done in a separate container but I am trying not to do it like that so I think I will have to build my modification.
Vortex used to sell a 4 way valve that was great but it is out of production and also difficult to build even with a 3 D printer (for me anyway as I am not that good at getting it on my computer so the printer knows what I am doing.
If I ever sold these things, I would also have that commercially built but the initial model would cost me thousands for the mold. I know because I patented the "Mojano Wand" and the tiny tip on the thing was maybe $10,000.00 and it costs about five cents to make (after you have the mold built.)
I am trying to simplify the thing so anyone, even my Grand Daughter could build it.
Yesterday I received a Rx from my Doctor. It is a little patch of what looks like Scotch tape and you stick it to the inside of your cheek. It dissolves in half an hour and is a narcotic. So if it puts me in a drug induced stupor, I should be able to design these parts easier.
Paul B
Premium Member
The 5 micron cartridge seems to work very well, "So Far in a test". I put diatom powder in a container with water and had the filter suck it up.
It coated the cartridge and completely cleared up the water of powder.
The only "issue" of starting it like this is that it would be difficult to start it in my tank this way. Normally, I add the powder with some water into my diatom filter before I start it. Then I put the ends of the hoses together and let it run until the jar gets clear and all the powder is on the pleated cartridge.
To run it this way, I would have to start it in a container of salt water and after it clears, I would have to put the ends of the hoses together while it is still running and transfer it to my reef. Then put the ends of the hoses under the water in my tank and pull them apart.
I normally do it that way anyway except I dump the power in before I start it. If I did that now, I "think" the powder would lump up on the bottom of the filter and stay there. I will test that and if that happens, I devised another way to start it that is very simple but I need to test it and it won't cost anything or take up any time. Just cost two bucks to implement.
I will post what happens.
It coated the cartridge and completely cleared up the water of powder.
The only "issue" of starting it like this is that it would be difficult to start it in my tank this way. Normally, I add the powder with some water into my diatom filter before I start it. Then I put the ends of the hoses together and let it run until the jar gets clear and all the powder is on the pleated cartridge.
To run it this way, I would have to start it in a container of salt water and after it clears, I would have to put the ends of the hoses together while it is still running and transfer it to my reef. Then put the ends of the hoses under the water in my tank and pull them apart.
I normally do it that way anyway except I dump the power in before I start it. If I did that now, I "think" the powder would lump up on the bottom of the filter and stay there. I will test that and if that happens, I devised another way to start it that is very simple but I need to test it and it won't cost anything or take up any time. Just cost two bucks to implement.
I will post what happens.
I always started mine with a juice jug in the tank. Hang the jug filled with tank water on the tank edge in the tank by it's handle. Put the diatom hoses in the jug and start it. Put the powder in the jug, and when it clears, lift the jug off the edge and lower it away so the hoses stay submerged. Easy peasy. Jug like this.
Vinny Kreyling
Premium Member
Paul
Eheim makes shut off valves to keep water in the hoses so you don't have to restart suction after cleaning the unit.
Eheim makes shut off valves to keep water in the hoses so you don't have to restart suction after cleaning the unit.
Paul B
Premium Member
Kharmaguru, suggested that I start it like this and I am totally grateful for the idea because it is much easier than I normally use diatoms. Especially this new model. This is how we did it in the 60s but I totally forgot about it. At my age I forget a lot of things.
I stirred up the gravel in my tank and noticing how fast it clears the water completely.
OK, it won't let me put the picture on here as the file is to large. But it is the same way Kharmaguru suggested
I stirred up the gravel in my tank and noticing how fast it clears the water completely.
OK, it won't let me put the picture on here as the file is to large. But it is the same way Kharmaguru suggested
Glad it helped. Vortex also made a recharge valve and you could also just kink the output hose until the bag is coated and the water was otherwise clear. All these methods always shoot a bit of diatom powder out when you switch to normal flow. The only one that doesn't was the jug method because flow is never interrupted.Kharmaguru, suggested that I start it like this and I am totally grateful for the idea because it is much easier than I normally use diatoms. Especially this new model. This is how we did it in the 60s but I totally forgot about it. At my age I forget a lot of things.
I stirred up the gravel in my tank and noticing how fast it clears the water completely.
OK, it won't let me put the picture on here as the file is to large. But it is the same way Kharmaguru suggested
Kudos Paul!!!!
I've been sold on diatom filters forever, almost as long as you. I built one using a 5" diameter pleated filter when an old Hayword diatom pool filter wore out (wasn't smart enough to get multiple Vortex filters and order parts before they went out of business). Over the decades I've found diatom filters helped with problems when other stuff didn't. Out of curiosity on one occasion I ran Aquabiomics tests before and after on a system that "wasn't right" and it showed coral pathogens before running a diatom filter and no coral pathogens after.
I've been sold on diatom filters forever, almost as long as you. I built one using a 5" diameter pleated filter when an old Hayword diatom pool filter wore out (wasn't smart enough to get multiple Vortex filters and order parts before they went out of business). Over the decades I've found diatom filters helped with problems when other stuff didn't. Out of curiosity on one occasion I ran Aquabiomics tests before and after on a system that "wasn't right" and it showed coral pathogens before running a diatom filter and no coral pathogens after.
Paul B
Premium Member
Kharmaguru I love that valve but they have been out of production for a long time. I used to have one but that was in the 60s so I forgot what I did with it and I doubt you can get them in quantity now. I normally just put the filter on the floor and fill it with tank water and powder. Then put the hose ends together until the glass clears. Then take the hoses apart in the tank. That doesn't work in this model I just built because if you put the powder in the jar while it is not running, it just lumps up on the bottom.
Vortex solved that problem by having a tube go from the inlet all the way to the bottom of the jar. That kept the powder in suspension even if you poured it in as I said.
I have had aquariums since the early fiftees and at one time or another I had just about everything but as far as I can remember always had at least one diatom filter and over the years made many modifications on them.
Vortex solved that problem by having a tube go from the inlet all the way to the bottom of the jar. That kept the powder in suspension even if you poured it in as I said.
I have had aquariums since the early fiftees and at one time or another I had just about everything but as far as I can remember always had at least one diatom filter and over the years made many modifications on them.
Paul B
Premium Member
Timfish in my Youth, I always had a local freshwater tank with creatures I collected in ponds and lakes. I used the diatom filter all the time because that water was filthy and I couldn't see the creatures. Then when salt came out in 1971, I did the same with ocean creatures and here I am today still putzing with this nonsense.
T Diddy
Happy to be here
Success!!I just removed the diatom filter from my tank. The water is so clear I didn't think the pumps were on.
Paul B
Premium Member
Thats the way I have been doing it since Noah invented the thing. It won't work in this model I just built. But the container procedure works perfectly. I just need to build or buy a square container that hangs in my tank. I am going to my favorite LFS today and hopefully he has a HOB filter housing laying around that I can get.
Paul B
Premium Member
Vinny, I have those valves but they are no good for starting a diatom filter. Shutting of the flow would just allow the powder to fall off the pleated cartridge. You need to keep the circulation going and starting in a small container is the way to go.
They would work on a Vortex diatom return hose just like the hose kinking I mentioned above because the filter internally cycles via the turbulence tube. Since your design can't facilitate a tube, your powder just falls.
Paul B
Premium Member
Yes I know, but the model I built does not recycle through itself like the old Vortex Diatom filters did. That feature never worked very well because the hole inside where it was supposed to cycle through was much to small. If you kink the hose on this one, nothing would happen.
With the container starting you gave me, there is no need to kink the hose, use the internal tube or a valve. It works perfect and is simple.
