JapanReef - 450 gallon In-Wall system

[dgasmd]

No experience with them, but my guess is that based on the price they are crappy. If you are going to get a controller, which is just a WASTE OF MONEY by the way and something completely UNNECESSARY, I would just get an aquacontroller and get an alarm module for it. However, redundancy is goo and for the investment of the ones above I don't see why not triple up.

 

[NexDog]

There's no decent controller on the market yet. Hard to believe but everything I've seen so far is based on flaky technology and I'm not willing to spend that kind of cash on something that will often fail. AC with its X-10's over my 100v mains is asking for trouble. Aquatronica with its lack of alerting abilities, waste of time. I can think of cheaper ways to turn me lights on and off, lol.

Only other thing they really do is control temperature which is great but it's not an exact science by the looks of it. I'll get the Aquatronica when the email facility is unveiled. Just need something to tide me over the winter. The room air-con might be enough to keep things cool.

 

[Bax]

NexDog

FWIW, I just started using a Digital Aquatics ReefKeeper on my 75g. It uses a temp probe and controls my lights, backs up my in tank heaters, controls my fans (both in hood and over sump) and my CLs so I can shut off for feeding (they automatically start back up). It has 8 channels and each can be individually set for time and or temperature. For just over $200 shipped, I think it does a lot. I have spent that in Intermatic timers already without the temp input on control. I'll be using one on my big system to control fans, lights, heaters and CLs in the display as well. I don't know what I use to control the equipment in the fish room as yet, but I have lots more time than you do to decide on that one. You have a tank to get up and running!

 

[Fliger]

Wow, fantastic set-up. James work is unreal, glad to see its worldwide. ;-)

No way would I consider a controller a waste of money on a large system. It cleans things up, logs and graphs your temp/ph/salinity/orp, gets rid of ugly timers, shuts things down in a logical fashion if things go wrong (temp gets high, first step turn on fans, next step turn on chiller, next step turn off one light, second light .... ph gets too low, shuts down reactor ... orp gets too high, shuts down ozone .... and so on). I have used one quite a while and will never be without one. I hated having my lights on $10 timers while my tank was in transition.

I have the AQT and my biggest reservation was the alerting abilities. I decided to get it anyway, learn it - have it control the system - and wait for the SMS, page, email, etc. and I am VERY glad I did. It is a fantastic system, so easy to change things on the fly opposed to the AQ2 I had.

Good luck and can't wait for updates!

 

[NexDog]

I doubt the Reefkeeper can email you if something goes wrong. My problem is that I just don't trust technology enough to keep everything running smoothly even with multiple layers of redundancy. If I use a controller it's so I can lay back and not have to worry about checking parameters all the time. But I'd rather do that than risk the system to a controller that might fail and then won't tell me it's screwed up. The AquaController does this but I've read too many nightmare threads about them. If a few can fail, they can fail.

Technologically the Aquatronica is more logical with its power bars (vs the X-10's) but as I've said before, turning over control to something that won't tell you there's a problem wouldn't serve to give me peace of mind. The whole controller concept needs more work but when a system comes out that is reliable and does it all I will remortgage my new house for one.

 

[NexDog]

Hey Fliger, I agree that the Aquatronica appears to be the best yet but I simply have to wait for the alerting modules to come out. When I'm back in the UK I want to know what my tank is doing without having to hook up a webcam ( ). And if something is going wrong I want AQT to tell me so I can phone a friend or my father-in-law and have him check out the problem and fix it. If I'm back in the UK no-one is looking after the tank except for feeding time so until AQT releases that module I ain't going anywhere. Sucks. Have you heard from Will regarding a release date?

 

[dgasmd]

No way would I consider a controller a waste of money on a large system. It cleans things up, logs and graphs your temp/ph/salinity/orp, gets rid of ugly timers, shuts things down in a logical fashion if things go wrong (temp gets high, first step turn on fans, next step turn on chiller, next step turn off one light, second light .... ph gets too low, shuts down reactor ... orp gets too high, shuts down ozone .... and so on). I have used one quite a while and will never be without one. I hated having my lights on $10 timers while my tank was in transition.

I will agree in that it will give you the ability of graphing and such, which I do. However, I am yet to figure out what to do with the data! Maybe what you refer to a controller and what I refer to is different.

pH and ORP controllers are worthless. I have been running a Ca reactor and a kalk reactor first independent of each other and now together for years. My pH has been exactly the same once they were dialed in within 3-5 days into use. I can't possibly find a single reason why I would want to spend the money to control something that has no variables in how it works. Same can be said for ORP. In 99.9% of the cases/tanks, ORP is not likely to continue to go up past a certain point achieved with a certain amount of ozone, which you should dial to that point slowly anyway. Once there, just about everything possible will drop it, but not raise it further. Again, worthless there in my opinion too. Temperature: most definately it is a necessity and not a choice. However, I would use a single controller for the heat and a separate one for the cool side simply for the redundancy.

I used for years the $7 appliance mechanical timers from HD. NEver had a single failure. Can't say the same for my AC that has been "working" for the past few months. :mixed:

Nexdog:

You should not ever expect or look at the controllers as a substitute for human intervention. I love automation, gadgets, and hands off, but I have learned over time that the best controller, monitor, and cleaning crew (credit to Steve Weast for this one) my tank has is me. I will add a controller for automation of simple tasks like lights and for the safety feature of turning them off in case the temp goes kaka, but I will not allow it to "run" the system as it is begin for disaster.

I travel from time to time and have also learned the hard way that in addition to the controller you should have a "better" method for problem diagnosis and solving. I've come up with a simple one and I can email it to you later if you want not to derail your thread any further.

 

[Fliger]

Yeah I've had two AQ2's and learned how to program it long ago. After I moved, I never set up the X-10's again because I hated them. They were cumbersome and ugly to me. Its definitely a luxury item, mostly I like it for temp control. I hate the $7 timers, think they're ugly, just personal preference I guess. That was the seller on the AQT for me since I like to tinker - if I need to change something, anything - from lights to whatever, I don't have to play with the little timers, I just do some key punching.

I travel a lot and it's piece of mind, plus it allows you to see what happened while you were gone.

I guess when you have this much money and time into your system (as you well know ;-) a grand doesn't make me flinch any more. Just makes this job ... er um ... hobby a little easier.

 

[BrianPlankis]

Laurence,

I've been following your thread for a long time now, not sure if I've chimed in before But I'm with you on the controllers, I just don't trust any yet, well except for my Ranco dual temp controller. It has two outlets for fans and two outlets for heaters. I have it set to cool at 82 and heat at 78. It has been running flawlessly for 9 months and retains the settings when power is lost.

Until I see a more bulletproof controller, everything else, except for lights on timers, is manual.

Brian

PS Great tank, can't wait to see it started!

 

[NexDog]

dgasmd - no problem with the derailing. This thread can go anywhere it wants and controllers is a good subject. If you want to share anymore ideas, I'm listening with open ears.

Fliger, I hear ya loud and clear. After this system is setup I'm sure I'll completely redesign it in about 6 months anyway. I'm after perfection and no matter how much you read, trial and error probably teaches us the most. I'm sure I'll be redoing the plumbing, the electricity and making a new hood by next June, lol. So I'm happy to wait for the AQT to be truly complete and then I'll add one.

I don't know how the CL's will work out and I might be running Tunze streams later - just have to wait and see.

Also, I want a nice electrical panel but I can figure out how people with tank rooms and spiffy electrical cabinets get their plugs to reach? If each piece of equipment had a 20ft cable then fine but.....

So I'm splitting my room into 4-5 zones. I'll have 8 plugs on the left which will power the return pump, skimmer pumps and one 24/7 CL and the skimmer feed pump. Then under the tank in the middle I have 10 sockets split into 2 groups of 5. One powers the return section of the sump - the powerheads feeding the phos/carbon reactors and aqualifter to the CA reactor (in the future) and the other powers the fuge area - lights and powerheads.

To the side of the tank I'll have a few sockets where the night/day timers will plug into. The lights and 2 pumps/4-Ways will plug into those. On the end a few extra sockets for auto top-off stuff, powerheads in salt-mixing container etc.

All groups of sockets will be in boxes to protect from any splashing...

It's not as elegant as these wondering electrical panels we see people here making but at the moment I don't know how else to do it. I've counted that I need about 30 plugs on this system. That is quite scary really.

 

[NexDog]

Hey Brian, heard great things about the Ranco controllers. But I opted for teh Finnex heaters with their controllers, I hear they are pretty good too. Won't turn fans on and off etc but as long as they are reliable....

It's going to be interesting to see how much heat the system generates with its 3 closed loop pumps (Dart, Dart or Hammerhead, Sequence 1000) plus skimmer pump (Iwaki) and return pump (PamWorld) plus the 3 x 400 watters. But I have an air regulator hooked up. It pumps air in and out the room (handy in winter but not so useful in teh summer when it's 37C outside with 20000% humidity). Plus I have an AC unit in there. AC units here are very good. Hook it up on the wall where you need and feed the line outside to unit that powers it. I have bought one for every room in the house actually.

 

[dgasmd]

OK, so I finally took a couple of pictures of what I was telling you about the cap and the intake screen.
Here you can see the cap from the side. The thread is the same as the intake screen.

Here you can see the dremmel tool I was refering to and the cap intake and another with the inside cut off.

Here is closer. Now you can see that I went in witht he tool fromt he inside along the side walls and cut the bottom of the cap off. So, all is left is the threaded rim.

 

[NexDog]

That's an awesome tip.

 

[NexDog]

Small progress report......

Decided on two 30A circuits for the tankroom. I wanted 3 x 20A ideally but the fusebox is already wired with 2 outlets for teh tankroom so I decided to just make them 30A instead. The wires are already in and the electrician is installing 30 sockets today. The GCFI sockets are $50 each (lol) so I just got 5 and will run the timers/lights on those. The whole house is GCFI protected at fusebox level too (if that makes any sense).

Received my Sequence 1000 (5800gph) for the PVC rack closed loop the other day. Also shipped with a PFO mini-Pendant, PFO ballast and 150w 10k XM DE bulb. It wouldn't light at first and I was a bit disappointed. I emailed Jason at PremiumAquatics and he suggested I plug it in and leave it for a while. Sio I did that and 20 minutes later it lit up. And damn, this thing is BRIGHT!!! This is the lighting for the prop section of the sump and I should get some good growth out of this bulb/fixture.

The stand builders are coming this afternoon. It's all cut and ready to be assembled so could be a big day iff all goes to plan.

 

[NexDog]

Stand is in and the tank is on it. This thing is so sturdy and happy I went with the steel stand. Went with double thickness painted plywood for the top.

Here's the stand with one of my carpenters. He just drilled teh holes for the bottom closed loop......

Photos courtesy of my wife. Still can't get over the weight of this thing!

And in she goes!

I'm going to lower that top frame a few inches and then we're going to put a 2" frame around the inside of the tank to finish it off. That last frame will cover the water line, the sand and teh two side edges (which you can see at the moment.

From the back.....

Hindsight sucks. I wish I'd made the tank room 3ft wider and 3ft longer. The tank wasn't going to be this big when I designed the house so that's my excuse, heh. It will be a squeeze but I'm going to make up for it by having some stuff on 2 levels.

The walkway that I'm devising is going to be great. Swings down from the back wall and clips into the stand at the bottom of the tank. Easy to reach in from there. Plus from the front I can open the access doors above the tank and I can fit my whole body through so cleaning the tank at the bottom won't be an issue at all.

Going to have a good crack at the plumbing tomorrow. See if I can get the tank wet for some testing.

 

[dgasmd]

My god man. Do you work at all?? I am always impressed with people that have so much time or energy to get projects like these off the ground and done in no time. Let me guess that you are the guy with the blue shirt and kakki pants right LOL........... Looking good. You'd be amazed how little you'll get to do from the front of the tank as time goes by.

 

[moonpod]

Nice. Wish I had any sort of a fish room....

 

[NexDog]

Work - yep, all the time. But I work from home on the computer so I can work at any time. I normally do a few hours in the morning, few in the afternoon and then about 4-5 in the evening. I sleep 4 hours a night during the week and catch up over the weekend. It works out that I have a lot of free time but get lots of work done too so it's a pretty cool life.

Yep, I'm the guy towering over the overs - and I'm not even 6ft.

 

[dgasmd]

Work - yep, all the time. But I work from home on the computer so I can work at any time.

That would explain how reply like within 5 min of a post here :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think if I worked from home I would probably never get anything done getting distracted with other stuff

 

[NexDog]

I'm addicted to my work so if I'm at home I'm usually on the computer or very near it. Sometimes I do wish I had a normal job though.