JapanReef - 450 gallon In-Wall system
- Thread starter NexDog
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melev
Well-known member
I don't recall. Have you ever had MH before? And this is without controllers or timers, right?
Once a MH gets hot and turns off, it won't restart for as much as 15 minutes later.
It could be that the ballasts are interfering with each other. Or maybe you are pulling too much current? What type of electricity do they use in Japan?
Once a MH gets hot and turns off, it won't restart for as much as 15 minutes later.
It could be that the ballasts are interfering with each other. Or maybe you are pulling too much current? What type of electricity do they use in Japan?
This is my first stab at MH. I did have them in timers but now I have all 3 ballast plugs plugged into the GCFI's (which cost me $50 a pop). They are flickering on and off alot so I don't believe the 15 minute thing is happening.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the electricy. We run 100v here and these are 120v. It definitely seems like they don't have enough power. I have a transformer somewhere so will plug that in and see what happens!
I think you hit the nail on the head with the electricy. We run 100v here and these are 120v. It definitely seems like they don't have enough power. I have a transformer somewhere so will plug that in and see what happens!
What can I say? BINGO! 
So I plugged one of MH from teh dual ballast into the transformer and it lit right away. The other one was lit but went out. Now I have one MH in either end and the comparison is unbelievable. The one on 120v is twice as bright as the one on 100v.
I don't mind getting 3 transformers for the halides but hoping I can get away with 100v on the pumps...
So I plugged one of MH from teh dual ballast into the transformer and it lit right away. The other one was lit but went out. Now I have one MH in either end and the comparison is unbelievable. The one on 120v is twice as bright as the one on 100v.
I don't mind getting 3 transformers for the halides but hoping I can get away with 100v on the pumps...
Yep. Seems my 100v electricity just wasn't producing enough power to light both bulbs on the dual ballast. The dual ballast has two plugs (one for each halide) and when I put into the transformer it lit up like a Christmas tree. And I could plainly see that this halide and teh one on the single ballast were very different. The dual ballast halide in the transformer was burning twice as bright as the one in the single ballast on straight 100v mains. So I'll need 5 transformer at least for the lights but I'm going to talk to the builders tomorrow to see if I can't get the two circuits running into the tankroom fed into some big transformer so I can run everything at 120v. US mains is 120v or 115v?
melev
Well-known member
Whatever you do, I do hope it is a realistic solution and not some type of patch-job. You don't want or need weak links, so to speak. Everything must be wired and grounded correctly. Are you talking about a few large transformers to care for the fish room circuits, or just to the lights themselves?
RobbyG
Active member
Nexdog I love your setup! I was reading about your voltage problems and wanted to add a few suggestions.
I live in an area where the voltage is 115V at 50hz. I have been doing some reading and Japan has the weirdest voltage supply in the world! I read that half of Japan has 100V 60hz and the other half is 100V 50hz. Now you need to check and make sure you are not using 50hz voltage or else your problems are going to multiply.
I found that almost all power heads and smaller pumps do not work well at all on 50hz. They either overheat and shutdown in minutes or just burn up altogether in a few days or weeks. That includes Sedra pumps etc. The Sequence pumps are rated for 60 & 50hz so you should be ok with that so long as you get the voltage up to 110 - 120 volts, but be warned that if you switch over during a power outage to a generator that is 60hz the Sequence pump will increase it's output and screw up all your flow settings.
Lastly I found that small cooling Fans etc do not work well on 50hz, they make a lot of noise almost like a cavatating motor. so you should buy any cooling fans from Japanese sources. I don't know if you will be using a chiller but keep in mind that the voltage and cycles will play Havok with that also. I recommend if you have a 120V 60hz chiller that you get an AC guy to scrap the compressor out and replace it with a Jap unit for your rated voltage. It will cool a lot better and save you tons of money on your electric bill.
Please keep up the great work, I look forward to reading more.
I live in an area where the voltage is 115V at 50hz. I have been doing some reading and Japan has the weirdest voltage supply in the world! I read that half of Japan has 100V 60hz and the other half is 100V 50hz. Now you need to check and make sure you are not using 50hz voltage or else your problems are going to multiply.
I found that almost all power heads and smaller pumps do not work well at all on 50hz. They either overheat and shutdown in minutes or just burn up altogether in a few days or weeks. That includes Sedra pumps etc. The Sequence pumps are rated for 60 & 50hz so you should be ok with that so long as you get the voltage up to 110 - 120 volts, but be warned that if you switch over during a power outage to a generator that is 60hz the Sequence pump will increase it's output and screw up all your flow settings.
Lastly I found that small cooling Fans etc do not work well on 50hz, they make a lot of noise almost like a cavatating motor. so you should buy any cooling fans from Japanese sources. I don't know if you will be using a chiller but keep in mind that the voltage and cycles will play Havok with that also. I recommend if you have a 120V 60hz chiller that you get an AC guy to scrap the compressor out and replace it with a Jap unit for your rated voltage. It will cool a lot better and save you tons of money on your electric bill.
Please keep up the great work, I look forward to reading more.
cmhollis
Active member
Nexdog,
Are you familiar with Ohm's law? Power (Watts) = Volts (V) x Current (I).
So, if your pump is rated to draw 300 watts, at a lower voltage (100 vs 120), it is going to draw more current to maintain the power necessary. This can lead to overheating, tripping of breakers, and possibly shortening the life of your equipment.
I would seriously look into some transformers to provide the proper input voltage and frequency to ensure that your pumps, lights, etc will operate at peak efficiency.
Are you familiar with Ohm's law? Power (Watts) = Volts (V) x Current (I).
So, if your pump is rated to draw 300 watts, at a lower voltage (100 vs 120), it is going to draw more current to maintain the power necessary. This can lead to overheating, tripping of breakers, and possibly shortening the life of your equipment.
I would seriously look into some transformers to provide the proper input voltage and frequency to ensure that your pumps, lights, etc will operate at peak efficiency.
Not familiar with that law but in my case the pumps are rated at a higher voltage. I've definitely decided on making sure I have teh right supply. Marc, the best option would be to run my 2 30 amp circuits straight into a large transformer and then having 120v come out of that. Then I can use the standard mains. But I don't even know if this is possible. If it isn't then I'll be using lots of smaller transformers.
RobbyG - thanks for the post. One thing I want to clarify is that you said I need to be careful that I'm not in a place with 50hz. But US is 50hz so surely 60hz would be worse for me? Or is US on 60hz? Basically I need to know exactly what voltage and frequency these PFO ballasts are made for.
On the subject of ballasts, dam that PFO dual ballast is noisy. The single ballast is alot quieter. Are the HQI ballasts quieter?
RobbyG - thanks for the post. One thing I want to clarify is that you said I need to be careful that I'm not in a place with 50hz. But US is 50hz so surely 60hz would be worse for me? Or is US on 60hz? Basically I need to know exactly what voltage and frequency these PFO ballasts are made for.
On the subject of ballasts, dam that PFO dual ballast is noisy. The single ballast is alot quieter. Are the HQI ballasts quieter?
jeffbrig
Premium Member
cmhollis said:
Not exactly.....
The wattage is given by Watt's Law P = I * V, but you can't assume that it uses the same power (wattage) for any given voltage. You would first need to apply Ohm's law (V = I * R ) to determine the current drain for a given input voltage, then plug that number in to determine the wattage.
Assuming a pump is rated 300W at 120V, that's 2.5 Amps (using Watt's Law). If we plug those numbers back into Ohm's law, we can estimate the pump motor's equivalent resistance as 120/2.5, or ~48 Ohms. It's a bit more complex in reality (EE pun there), as electric motors actually present inductive loads, but this is good enough to use as a equivilent resistive load for these calculations (Thevenin's theorem).
So, assuming 100V power in Japan, how much current will the pump draw?
100V = I * 48Ohms
I = 2.08 Amps
Then the wattage would be
P = 100V * 2.08A
P = 208 watts
I'm sure everyone will agree that water flow will be SIGNIFICANTLY reduced running at 208 watts vs. 300 watts on US 120V.
This is a nasty problem to have to deal with NexDog, you have my sympathies. As someone else suggested (was it melev?), I would look into a large transformer to provide 120V power to the tank circuits, and even consider buying a 100V backup pump in case you have problems with the transformer circuit. That way, you can at least keep the tank running. Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy.....
jeffbrig
Premium Member
NexDog said:
US is nominally 120V @ 60Hz
Running a 60Hz electric motor on 50Hz power can cause significant problems. I'm not sure what effects it would potentially have on ballasts or electronic equipment.
If you want to be sure what your equipment is rated for, everything should have that on a UL label. Among other things, it will specify the voltage and frequency it should be operated at, as well as a rating for current and/or wattage consumption.
Okay, so I'll find out the frequency and take it from there. Hope we are on 60hz...
Jeff, thanks for the post. Hopefully I'll have people around tomorrow and see if we can find the best course of action. I'm thinking a large transformer out the way in the attic. Run the lines up there and back down...
Jeff, thanks for the post. Hopefully I'll have people around tomorrow and see if we can find the best course of action. I'm thinking a large transformer out the way in the attic. Run the lines up there and back down...
melev
Well-known member
Yes, I really hope there is something out there that gives you the proper electricity to all your equipment. I never even thought about it until you mentioned the lighting problem. I knew you were ordering all this stuff but it never dawned on me that you'd have alternate power. As I've never been to Japan, I don't even know what your outlets look like over there. In Europe, they are 220v with two and three pin-pronged plugs. I've used transformers to use an electric razor and didn't think it was a big deal, but using one <i>all the time</i> to power pumps is a whole other thing.
If you are using Tunze Streams, I bet they have the proper components for your part of the earth.
Regarding the ballasts, you should ask Andy (ASH) in the IceCap forum about the noises and power situation.
If you are using Tunze Streams, I bet they have the proper components for your part of the earth.
Regarding the ballasts, you should ask Andy (ASH) in the IceCap forum about the noises and power situation.
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