JJ Stecchino's new 180g Starfire reef tank
- Thread starter jjstecchino
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jjstecchino
New member
Preparing Marcorocks
Preparing Marcorocks
Not everything that seems bad is actually bad! Good thing my tank got delayed! I was thinking of dropping 160lb of Marcorocks into the new tank and let it cure into it. Now examining the rocks and from what I read in the forums I realize it would have been a terrible mistake!
Don't get me wrong, the Fiji rocks are beautiful, very porous, excellent sizes and shapes, however even the "pre-cured" variety now sold appears to be far from being ready for prime time in the tank.
As you can see some part of the rocks appear very white and bleached, however some other are dark and full of organic material such as dry macroalgae, invertebrates, gunk etc.
So as advised I will be faithfully going for a vinegar soak followed by how long it will take to cook these rocks. I have a feeling that with a little work these rocks will turn out beautiful.
Preparing Marcorocks
Not everything that seems bad is actually bad! Good thing my tank got delayed! I was thinking of dropping 160lb of Marcorocks into the new tank and let it cure into it. Now examining the rocks and from what I read in the forums I realize it would have been a terrible mistake!
Don't get me wrong, the Fiji rocks are beautiful, very porous, excellent sizes and shapes, however even the "pre-cured" variety now sold appears to be far from being ready for prime time in the tank.
As you can see some part of the rocks appear very white and bleached, however some other are dark and full of organic material such as dry macroalgae, invertebrates, gunk etc.
So as advised I will be faithfully going for a vinegar soak followed by how long it will take to cook these rocks. I have a feeling that with a little work these rocks will turn out beautiful.
Last edited:
jjstecchino
New member
Preparing Marcorocks
Preparing Marcorocks
So here we go..... Let's rock!
Here is what I have. Two 50g rubbermaid roughneck vats, 10g of wal-mart white distilled vinegar, 4x40lb boxes of Marco rocks.
I would like to use tap water rather than RODI if I can. It would be much quicker.
Before getting to excited let me use due caution and check the water for PO4:
Ouch... the left vial is RODI. No PO4. The right is tap water and 0.5-1.0 mg/l of PO4. Well tap water is out of the question!
Here is what 160lb of Marcorocks look like:
The bubble wrap mat is ~ 4'x8'
The rocks really have beautiful shapes. Here are a few examples:
Here are the rocks in the vats patiently waiting to be filled with RODI and vinegar
To be continued .........
Preparing Marcorocks
So here we go..... Let's rock!
Here is what I have. Two 50g rubbermaid roughneck vats, 10g of wal-mart white distilled vinegar, 4x40lb boxes of Marco rocks.
I would like to use tap water rather than RODI if I can. It would be much quicker.
Before getting to excited let me use due caution and check the water for PO4:
Ouch... the left vial is RODI. No PO4. The right is tap water and 0.5-1.0 mg/l of PO4. Well tap water is out of the question!
Here is what 160lb of Marcorocks look like:
The bubble wrap mat is ~ 4'x8'
The rocks really have beautiful shapes. Here are a few examples:
Here are the rocks in the vats patiently waiting to be filled with RODI and vinegar
To be continued .........
melev
Well-known member
Claudio, a couple of threads documented how a strange clear slime was all over their new set ups, and they attributed it to the vinegar treatment. It was a clear slime that gooed up on rocks, glass, pumps, in the sump... It was strange.
The only reason I'm telling you this is to avoid the inclination to let them soak too long in vinegar. I don't know what the recommended time period is, but whatever that may be, try to stick with it and don't add more time.
Hopefully you won't see the same event.
The only reason I'm telling you this is to avoid the inclination to let them soak too long in vinegar. I don't know what the recommended time period is, but whatever that may be, try to stick with it and don't add more time.
Hopefully you won't see the same event.
jjstecchino
New member
Marc I read that. These rocks seem to be coral skeletons and should be almost pure CaCO3. I bet if I drop pure vinegar on it it will start fizzing.
I bet the problem with the slime was either high concentration of acetic acid or excessive duration of exposure to it. I hope the slime is not coming from other dissolved organics in vinegar. Wal-mart distilled vinegar should be almost pure acetic acid without too much other dissolved organic solutes so hopefully it will be ok.
I will keep a close eye on the rocks while they are marinating.
In the meantime I need more RODI and quicker. I have an extra membrane and I think I am going to mod my RODI system
Amoore311
New member
I used Bulk Reef Supply Ecco Rox for my 90 Gallon. My 180 Gallon will have another 30-40 lbs of ecco rox.
I never bother measuring the PO4. Only because I run GFO 24/7 in a reactor, the stuff is so efficient at removing Phosphates I never really saw a reason to even bother testing for it.
Now, that being said if I had an algae bloom or something along those lines.... I'd test for it. The GFO takes care of any phosphates that could have been in the rock though, no worries.
I never bother measuring the PO4. Only because I run GFO 24/7 in a reactor, the stuff is so efficient at removing Phosphates I never really saw a reason to even bother testing for it.
Now, that being said if I had an algae bloom or something along those lines.... I'd test for it. The GFO takes care of any phosphates that could have been in the rock though, no worries.
jjstecchino
New member
RODI Mod
RODI Mod
I needed more RODI water and quicker. I have a fresh 100gpd membrane with casing laying around so I decided to mod my RODI system in order to increase RO output and reduce waste.
Here is what I did:
This is an overview of the system. A 3g reservoir is on the right. I have a faucet for RODI on the sink above that is fed by this reservoir
Here is a close up of the RODI system
Here the connection are shown in details:
The plumbing go as follows:
Water come from the coldwater line (red pipe) and goes through the 3 canister filters. The output goes to the intake of the upper membrane. The membrane has two outputs on the left. The top one is waste water and is connected to the input of the lower membrane. The second output is RO water this goes to a T and then to the autoshutoff valve. On the lower membrane the waste (left top output) goes to the restrictor valve. The lower left (RO water) goes to the T that feeds into the autoshutoff valve. From this valve RO water goes through the DI resins and feeds the reservoir.
With the two membranes in series the waste water of the first membrane feeds the second one which will extract more RO water from it.
My water psi is ~80 so the system works well. The amount of RODI seems almost double.
I measure TDS with an inline meter. Here are the readings:
Tap water:
RODI Water
RODI Mod
I needed more RODI water and quicker. I have a fresh 100gpd membrane with casing laying around so I decided to mod my RODI system in order to increase RO output and reduce waste.
Here is what I did:
This is an overview of the system. A 3g reservoir is on the right. I have a faucet for RODI on the sink above that is fed by this reservoir
Here is a close up of the RODI system
Here the connection are shown in details:
The plumbing go as follows:
Water come from the coldwater line (red pipe) and goes through the 3 canister filters. The output goes to the intake of the upper membrane. The membrane has two outputs on the left. The top one is waste water and is connected to the input of the lower membrane. The second output is RO water this goes to a T and then to the autoshutoff valve. On the lower membrane the waste (left top output) goes to the restrictor valve. The lower left (RO water) goes to the T that feeds into the autoshutoff valve. From this valve RO water goes through the DI resins and feeds the reservoir.
With the two membranes in series the waste water of the first membrane feeds the second one which will extract more RO water from it.
My water psi is ~80 so the system works well. The amount of RODI seems almost double.
I measure TDS with an inline meter. Here are the readings:
Tap water:
RODI Water
jjstecchino
New member
Marinating & Cooking Marcorocks
Marinating & Cooking Marcorocks
Today I had enough RODI water and sw to continue preparing the rocks.
A few considerations:
The rocks were left soaking in RODI overnight. The clean RODI had 0 TDS and 0 PO4 by test. After a night with the rocks in it there was measurable PO4 at 0.1 mg/l
Second consideration:
Vinegar was used at a very diluted concentration of 5 g of vinegar in 25g of RODI water. Nevertheless when the rocks were placed in this solution, the water started fizzing and bubbling significantly.
I used this diluted concentration and a relatively short vinegar bath after reading threads describing the formation of a white slime on the rocks tank and pumps after a vinegar bath. I believe the slime is probably Ca-Acetate+dissolved organics from excessive corrosion of Ca-Carbonate by acetic acid. My goal here was to eliminate a superficial coat of the outer layer of the rock.
After a few hours the outer layer of the rock was quite slimy. Most of the dead organic, at this point, would easily come out with a brush.
In order to stop this corrosive process, the rocks were washed in fresh RODI water and dried. Then they were placed in the cooking vat.
Here are some pictures of the process.
I split the 160lb of rocks in two batches. I used one 50g rubbermaid toughneck vat for the vinegar bath and one for the RODI washing. This kind of vats was enough for the job however they are very flimsy and bow significantly.
Here is the first batch of rocks with a maxi-jet 600 for water circulation. The vat contains in addition to the rocks, 25g of RODI water
Here the water is bubbling after 5 gallons of Vinegar were added
A close up
Note the tiny bubbles fizzing from the water.
The rocks were left in vinegar for 6 hours. Then they were scrubbed with this
This is a horse brush obtained from Tractor Supply
These are the two vats after the first batch of rocks were done.
The right vats is the vinegar bath, the left is the RODI wash
This is the first batch of rocks drying in the sun after being rinsed in RODI water
I bought a tough 100g rubbermaid commercial vat at Tractor Supply and this will be used for the cooking process
Here are the rocks happily placed in sw with the skimmer on
I have more water soaking in RODI water waiting for more sw to be ready to fill the cooking vat
That's all folks for today!
Marinating & Cooking Marcorocks
Today I had enough RODI water and sw to continue preparing the rocks.
A few considerations:
The rocks were left soaking in RODI overnight. The clean RODI had 0 TDS and 0 PO4 by test. After a night with the rocks in it there was measurable PO4 at 0.1 mg/l
Second consideration:
Vinegar was used at a very diluted concentration of 5 g of vinegar in 25g of RODI water. Nevertheless when the rocks were placed in this solution, the water started fizzing and bubbling significantly.
I used this diluted concentration and a relatively short vinegar bath after reading threads describing the formation of a white slime on the rocks tank and pumps after a vinegar bath. I believe the slime is probably Ca-Acetate+dissolved organics from excessive corrosion of Ca-Carbonate by acetic acid. My goal here was to eliminate a superficial coat of the outer layer of the rock.
After a few hours the outer layer of the rock was quite slimy. Most of the dead organic, at this point, would easily come out with a brush.
In order to stop this corrosive process, the rocks were washed in fresh RODI water and dried. Then they were placed in the cooking vat.
Here are some pictures of the process.
I split the 160lb of rocks in two batches. I used one 50g rubbermaid toughneck vat for the vinegar bath and one for the RODI washing. This kind of vats was enough for the job however they are very flimsy and bow significantly.
Here is the first batch of rocks with a maxi-jet 600 for water circulation. The vat contains in addition to the rocks, 25g of RODI water
Here the water is bubbling after 5 gallons of Vinegar were added
A close up
Note the tiny bubbles fizzing from the water.
The rocks were left in vinegar for 6 hours. Then they were scrubbed with this
This is a horse brush obtained from Tractor Supply
These are the two vats after the first batch of rocks were done.
The right vats is the vinegar bath, the left is the RODI wash
This is the first batch of rocks drying in the sun after being rinsed in RODI water
I bought a tough 100g rubbermaid commercial vat at Tractor Supply and this will be used for the cooking process
Here are the rocks happily placed in sw with the skimmer on
I have more water soaking in RODI water waiting for more sw to be ready to fill the cooking vat
That's all folks for today!
jjstecchino
New member
Marcorocks high PO4
Marcorocks high PO4
The rocks have gone through vinegar treatment, RODI rinse and they have been in the cooking vat for about 20h now. The water is very clear, circulation is with two maxi-jet 600 and 1200. The skimmer is producing a small amount of thick yellow skimmate.
I tested the water:
Ph - 8.5
NH4 - 0
PO4 - 1.0 mg/l
It seems despite vinegar treatment the rocks are still leaching quite a bit of phosphate. I have a GFO reactor, I think I am going to buy some media and a pump and start running it. Any thoughts?
Marcorocks high PO4
The rocks have gone through vinegar treatment, RODI rinse and they have been in the cooking vat for about 20h now. The water is very clear, circulation is with two maxi-jet 600 and 1200. The skimmer is producing a small amount of thick yellow skimmate.
I tested the water:
Ph - 8.5
NH4 - 0
PO4 - 1.0 mg/l
It seems despite vinegar treatment the rocks are still leaching quite a bit of phosphate. I have a GFO reactor, I think I am going to buy some media and a pump and start running it. Any thoughts?
CeeGee
New member
It is good to see someone acknowledge that this type of base rock contains phosphate. I add some reeferrocks (the big brand before marco) and my tank went straight to h e double hockey sticks.
That was three years ago and I am still battling high phosphate even after cooking the rock for months and months before setting up my new tank. I have contemplated throwing out all my rock and buying new live rock. I will never use this type of base rock again. Live or nothing! Good luck on your tank you are doing a great job so far!
That was three years ago and I am still battling high phosphate even after cooking the rock for months and months before setting up my new tank. I have contemplated throwing out all my rock and buying new live rock. I will never use this type of base rock again. Live or nothing! Good luck on your tank you are doing a great job so far!
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jjstecchino
New member
Water check for today. 48h into curing Marcorocks
Ph 8.5
Ammonia still 0
PO4 1.0 mg/l unchanged
Ammonia is not rising as I thought it would.
Either the rocks are quite free from organics from Marco's and the vinegar treatment or just they need more time. Skimmate is modest at this point
Next week I will add some live rocks and maybe a dead shrimp if no ammonia yet.
I am waiting for the GFO to start the PO4 reactor. It should be here mid of next week. In the meantime should I do a water change to lower PO4 or just wait to add the GFO since the water is overall clean?
Ph 8.5
Ammonia still 0
PO4 1.0 mg/l unchanged
Ammonia is not rising as I thought it would.
Either the rocks are quite free from organics from Marco's and the vinegar treatment or just they need more time. Skimmate is modest at this point
Next week I will add some live rocks and maybe a dead shrimp if no ammonia yet.
I am waiting for the GFO to start the PO4 reactor. It should be here mid of next week. In the meantime should I do a water change to lower PO4 or just wait to add the GFO since the water is overall clean?
jjstecchino
New member
Taqpol, I was planning to use a GFO reactor to export PO4 instead of water changes, since the water other than hight PO4 seems ok by other parameters. Do you see any pitfalls with this approach?
jjstecchino
New member
Good I can post again. I have not been able to post on melev's, taqpol's and my thread all yesterday night. Maybe some of RC servers needed reboot. Interesting some of the most recently started threads were accepting posts without errors.
Taqpol
New member
Really funny you say this, because I kept getting email notifications saying you were posting in my thread and your thread, but every time I went there there were no new posts. You must have tried to post to your page about ten times!
I think the GFO phosphate reactor should work, but I've never actually cooked rock before. Only time will tell, let it run with a GFO reactor for a week or two and see if the phosphate has gone down.
jjstecchino
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15311929#post15311929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Taqpol
Really funny you say this, because I kept getting email notifications saying you were posting in my thread and your thread, but every time I went there there were no new posts. You must have tried to post to your page about ten times!
That's about right. I don't know what happened but I could post just fine on relatively new threads with few posts (I posted on another thread where the poster was trying to get info on Marcorocks and it went ok) but when I tried to post on yours, melev's and mine the post would not go through and give a search engine error which is interesting because there was no search involved.
jjstecchino
New member
Today update.
Curing water parameters
Ph - 8.5
NH4 - 0
NH2 - 0
NH3 - 0
PO4 - 1 mg/l
I decided to add some bioload to the curing vats to produce some ammonia. Yesterday I got 5 cromis and put in the vat. They look very happy with all those rocks and they scurry around a lot. I will add them to the new tank later on.
I decided to deal with the PO4 with a GFO reactor. I got pelletized GFO from Bulk Reef Supply and added 1.5 cups to the reactor.
I thought I rinsed the GFO real well with RO water but it still made the vat water slightly brownish tinted. Is that normal? I haven't done GFO before.
So far everything looks good.
I would like to start working on my existing tank. It is succumbing to hair algae. I believe that unfortunately I will have to take it down and restart from scratch.
I am trying very hard to keep the new tank stuff separate from the old. I would like to avoid carrying hair algae from the old tank to the new.
What would be the best way to "decontaminate" the animals on the old tank before putting them in the new?
I thought of doing a transitional tank where I can put the fish and anemone for a while, maybe treat it with algaefix and do frequent water changes.
What do I do with the hermit crabs, live rocks, snails and feather dusters that have hair algae growing on them? any suggestion on that?
I would like to save as many animals I can.
Curing water parameters
Ph - 8.5
NH4 - 0
NH2 - 0
NH3 - 0
PO4 - 1 mg/l
I decided to add some bioload to the curing vats to produce some ammonia. Yesterday I got 5 cromis and put in the vat. They look very happy with all those rocks and they scurry around a lot. I will add them to the new tank later on.
I decided to deal with the PO4 with a GFO reactor. I got pelletized GFO from Bulk Reef Supply and added 1.5 cups to the reactor.
I thought I rinsed the GFO real well with RO water but it still made the vat water slightly brownish tinted. Is that normal? I haven't done GFO before.
So far everything looks good.
I would like to start working on my existing tank. It is succumbing to hair algae. I believe that unfortunately I will have to take it down and restart from scratch.
I am trying very hard to keep the new tank stuff separate from the old. I would like to avoid carrying hair algae from the old tank to the new.
What would be the best way to "decontaminate" the animals on the old tank before putting them in the new?
I thought of doing a transitional tank where I can put the fish and anemone for a while, maybe treat it with algaefix and do frequent water changes.
What do I do with the hermit crabs, live rocks, snails and feather dusters that have hair algae growing on them? any suggestion on that?
I would like to save as many animals I can.
melev
Well-known member
You could add 100+ snails to your current tank to mow down the algae you are concerned about. More if you can get them, along with hermits, etc. That would clean off the animals in question.
Decontaminating livestock is pretty optimistic on your part, but a quarantine tank would be one way. If the livestock is healthy and happy now, I would just move them over to the new tank as long as the water parameters match.
Is the LR curing vat being skimmed? Is it a good skimmer? Remember to shake off the rock well once a week, move the rock to a new container filled with saltwater, and continue the process with flow & a skimmer. I don't think it will ever 'cycle' since it was dead/dry rock in the first place. As you noticed, your kit reveals nothing thus far.
Decontaminating livestock is pretty optimistic on your part, but a quarantine tank would be one way. If the livestock is healthy and happy now, I would just move them over to the new tank as long as the water parameters match.
Is the LR curing vat being skimmed? Is it a good skimmer? Remember to shake off the rock well once a week, move the rock to a new container filled with saltwater, and continue the process with flow & a skimmer. I don't think it will ever 'cycle' since it was dead/dry rock in the first place. As you noticed, your kit reveals nothing thus far.
jjstecchino
New member
Marc the rock vat is actively skimmed by a ER RS250.
I was thinking along the line that dry rock still would have some organic material that would decompose once the rock is placed in water. This decomposition would make ammonia and start a cycle at that point. However I have not seen any ammonia yet, hence the 5 little cromies I put in the vat. They appear very happy and they get fed lightly some flakes. They eat it all. I hope this will finally start a cycle. At that point I am going to add some cured live rock. (I have to find time to go and buy it. My LFS is 1.5h away from where I live).
What do you think about putting the yellow tang and the clown fish on a quarantine tank without rocks for a while, do frequent water changes on this QT to try to get rid of hair algae in the water before I put them into the new tank? Do you think this my work or I am deluding myself and sill will have at least some hair algae and at the end it is a waste of time and effort? The fish seem very healty at this point. I have a good number of snails and hermit crabs, (difficult to count) however they did not put a dent on this algae growth.
Then do the same with the two anemones if I can get them off the rocks. Any trick to do that?
