kcress
New member
Thanks beex. I agree, really complex. I could've gone with a 180 (24" high) and skipped the complicated stand but it would've been a "bend-over" viewing tank.
Thanks mrfish! :beer:
Join me for a strange one...
- Thread starter kcress
- Start date
Thanks beex. I agree, really complex. I could've gone with a 180 (24" high) and skipped the complicated stand but it would've been a "bend-over" viewing tank.
Thanks mrfish! :beer:
kcress
New member
And, MrFish here's some more build pics.
The single pulley left chain drive.
Those with a sharp eye and a sharper memory will notice the setup in the background I used to demonstrate that a pump's work is reduced by restricting its outlet, NOT increased, like so many people mistakenly believe.
The drive double sprocket side.
You can also see my CNC router in the background.
Now we need to mount the gear drive. So I cut this plate out with a cutting torch to fit into the braces. I then milled out the slotted holes.
Here it is installed.
Motor mounted.
The business end, before the intermediate gear was added.
.
The single pulley left chain drive.
Those with a sharp eye and a sharper memory will notice the setup in the background I used to demonstrate that a pump's work is reduced by restricting its outlet, NOT increased, like so many people mistakenly believe.
The drive double sprocket side.
You can also see my CNC router in the background.
Now we need to mount the gear drive. So I cut this plate out with a cutting torch to fit into the braces. I then milled out the slotted holes.
Here it is installed.
Motor mounted.
The business end, before the intermediate gear was added.
.
tahiriqbal
Sialkot
Excellent work Sir... Just a quick question since you will be lifting dead weight, would this highlighted area will have any trouble?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
It would take a tremendous amount of force to collapse the rectangular tube sections. Even in an earthquake where the motion was parallel to the center axis of the flat section, they would likely not flex enough to break the welds. Remember, there are 4 corners all held rigid by the lower frame AND upper frame. The only movement is the play in the jack columns, and the columns themselves will fail before the tubular pillows do
kcress
New member
tahiriqbal; Bean has pretty much answered that.
Those box sections are all engaged into the verticals with welded rings that fit inside the legs. That means no shifting. As for the crush weight of those 'boxes' you could park a truck on those and they wouldn't crush and the tank is distributed over four of them. I have not seen any deflection at all. I liked the question though. Thanks.
Those box sections are all engaged into the verticals with welded rings that fit inside the legs. That means no shifting. As for the crush weight of those 'boxes' you could park a truck on those and they wouldn't crush and the tank is distributed over four of them. I have not seen any deflection at all. I liked the question though. Thanks.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Does the 4V still work? Gimme Gimme!
kcress
New member
Ah you should've said something before I recycled it.. :hmm4: You have a good eye!
(Folks that's the 11"x17" laser jet in the back ground.)
I loved it. It started streaking really badly. I replaced all the cartridges and even the photo drum.. It worked well for a few months then started streaking like I'd never done anything for it. I recycled it and bought an HP Office Jet Pro K850. What and expensive sordid P.O.S. it is! After about 8 HP printers I will never, ever, buy another. That company has badly lost its way.
But enough on that.. Here's the final retro shots!
Grinding and wire brushing everything before a lacquer-thinner wipe down as the paint prep.
Starting with the leg inserts.
Starting on the least visible part of the stand while I get my HVLD painting dialed in. Oh, and this is where I also painted my walls, tools, benches, phone, safety glasses, etc., etc., with permanent over spray. :hmm3:
Done! Well.. before testing that showed I needed to add more gear reduction, as seen in prior pages.
Next up is MMLR.
(Folks that's the 11"x17" laser jet in the back ground.)
I loved it. It started streaking really badly. I replaced all the cartridges and even the photo drum.. It worked well for a few months then started streaking like I'd never done anything for it. I recycled it and bought an HP Office Jet Pro K850. What and expensive sordid P.O.S. it is! After about 8 HP printers I will never, ever, buy another. That company has badly lost its way.
But enough on that.. Here's the final retro shots!
Grinding and wire brushing everything before a lacquer-thinner wipe down as the paint prep.
Starting with the leg inserts.
Starting on the least visible part of the stand while I get my HVLD painting dialed in. Oh, and this is where I also painted my walls, tools, benches, phone, safety glasses, etc., etc., with permanent over spray. :hmm3:
Done! Well.. before testing that showed I needed to add more gear reduction, as seen in prior pages.
Next up is MMLR.
stugray
Premium Member
"This is my welding helmet. I show it to you only to warn you that it is a piece of garbage. !!Avoid!!"
I welded for ~10 years and it paid for my college, and when those electronics hoods came out I said NO WAY (I have had at least a couple of flash burn experiences).
I just didnt trust the electronics to protect my eyes.
I can honestly say.... I spend more time looking at the gadgets in the background than I do the actual thing you are trying to show.
It is like a"Willy-wonka" candyland for us uber-geeks.
"(Folks that's the 11"x17" laser jet in the back ground.)"
I had a friend in college whose apartment caught fire. It melted his HP laserjet.
It still worked fine with a black charred carcass.
kcress,
you have good welding skills and a decent choice in tools (except I hope that is not the crappy makita grinder with the switch that wont stay on after a months use ;-)
I like the hobby lathe, pump experiment thingy, CNC router (of course) and vintage 386 computer to run it.
Stu
I welded for ~10 years and it paid for my college, and when those electronics hoods came out I said NO WAY (I have had at least a couple of flash burn experiences).
I just didnt trust the electronics to protect my eyes.
I can honestly say.... I spend more time looking at the gadgets in the background than I do the actual thing you are trying to show.
It is like a"Willy-wonka" candyland for us uber-geeks.
"(Folks that's the 11"x17" laser jet in the back ground.)"
I had a friend in college whose apartment caught fire. It melted his HP laserjet.
It still worked fine with a black charred carcass.
kcress,
you have good welding skills and a decent choice in tools (except I hope that is not the crappy makita grinder with the switch that wont stay on after a months use ;-)
I like the hobby lathe, pump experiment thingy, CNC router (of course) and vintage 386 computer to run it.
Stu
kcress
New member
Stu my friend.. You too have a good eye.
I was about to cleanse my pictures by cropping everything, but, I too love to see into other DIYer's microcosms and decided at the last minute to leave the surroundings.
The builds that let you see the surroundings seem to be the most organic and interesting. They also help lend scale to everything.
As I build things I'm the type to get out things as I need them and then leav'em lay, because I might need them again soon. So my work space steadily becomes a huge messy jumble. When everything starts bogging because it takes five minutes to dig the TIG cable out from under it all, or I can't find a tool, I stop and clean up. You can look through these pics and see this happening. I think it's pretty funny.
As for the helmet. I love the principal. They all protect you from UV burns even if they never switch. I've had it happen a few times. Either I've blocked the solar panels so they can't see the arc or the helmet "goes to sleep" and I don't notice.
My complaints are that it's horribly unbalanced. It slowly lowers no matter what I do. It also falls off my head a lot even though I tighten it until my head takes on a coke bottle shape. The battery issue. It doesn't go dark enough for me in some cases. It tries to cut off all my air. I'll get a headache due to CO2 if I don't constantly watch for it. I constantly have to fiddle with it. It's just a lousy execution.
I was about to cleanse my pictures by cropping everything, but, I too love to see into other DIYer's microcosms and decided at the last minute to leave the surroundings.
The builds that let you see the surroundings seem to be the most organic and interesting. They also help lend scale to everything.
As I build things I'm the type to get out things as I need them and then leav'em lay, because I might need them again soon.
So my work space steadily becomes a huge messy jumble. When everything starts bogging because it takes five minutes to dig the TIG cable out from under it all, or I can't find a tool, I stop and clean up. You can look through these pics and see this happening. I think it's pretty funny.As for the helmet. I love the principal. They all protect you from UV burns even if they never switch. I've had it happen a few times. Either I've blocked the solar panels so they can't see the arc or the helmet "goes to sleep" and I don't notice.
My complaints are that it's horribly unbalanced. It slowly lowers no matter what I do. It also falls off my head a lot even though I tighten it until my head takes on a coke bottle shape. The battery issue. It doesn't go dark enough for me in some cases. It tries to cut off all my air. I'll get a headache due to CO2 if I don't constantly watch for it. I constantly have to fiddle with it. It's just a lousy execution.
dzfish17
New member
When I saw this build a couple of months ago, I told my wife it was nice to see other people with my disorder (fish addict).
Im going to start an aquascaping nightmare project in my 600g soon. Youre build is definitely one of a kind. Its nice to see people like you in this hobby.
You had a dream and youre making it happen. I wish I could add some info to youre build but I think youve got it covered. I will be checking in to see youre progress from time to time.
Thanks for sharing,
Dave
Im going to start an aquascaping nightmare project in my 600g soon. Youre build is definitely one of a kind. Its nice to see people like you in this hobby.
You had a dream and youre making it happen. I wish I could add some info to youre build but I think youve got it covered. I will be checking in to see youre progress from time to time.
Thanks for sharing,
Dave
kcress
New member
Thanks for the encouragement dzfish17! Glad you're tagging along. Fresno huh? Not too far away. (S.Cruz)
Onward and upward!
My present ManMadeLiveRock plan is based on the fact that the inside rear of the tank is very hard to access. I want to cover it so I don't have to try to clean it regularly. I also don't want hundreds of pounds of rock, so it needs to be light.
I only have the previously seen 2 foot wide holes in the tank top - courtesy of the 36" depth.
I also don't want a single detracting object in view. So the two central standpipes need to hidden.
I don't want my water volume displaced by a bunch of wet furniture.
While a long view; "Look thru the Rock Outcrop", is always nice it seems my requirements add up to a "Rock Wall" as far as I can tell.
Jump in if you see alternatives that you can functionally describe somehow.
I'll construct panels to fit thru the top and onto the back.
There will be three 20" wide panels across the back. Then a 12" one across the front side of the overflow. And one for the side of the overflow so the overflow is completely hidden.
I haven't decided what to to do about the two sides...
The right standpipe will have some sort of conical(?) surround rising to cover it completely. The left will probably have some sort of surround that reaches the outside corner of the overflow. This is to try to head off two similar surrounds looking too suspiciously man made.
As a start to this scheme I've built one panel.
I took a piece of plywood and nailed down some 3/4" square wood strips. I made sure they were absolutely perpendicular and 20" apart. Then I added end pieces to define the panel height to 1/2" less than the inside tank height. Because this isn't a foam build they won't float. So all that is needed will be to lower them into the tank butted up to each other and a little adhesive to keep them from failing forward.
Next, using a 5 gallon pail, and a scoop that is about a 3 quart pail, I added two scoops of Perlite, 2 scoops of oyster shells, and one scoop of white Portland cement. I stir this up until it's pretty homogenized then add 3/4 of the scoop of water reserving the remainder for tough dry spots in the mix. I mix the whole thing up with a trowel until it's mixed and damp (including the remainder of the water).
Then I dumped it into the form. I did this four times.
The first three to fill the form and the last for 3D additions. I grabbed a paper towel tube and cut it in two. I laid them on the surface and then covered them with the mix. Once done I covered the whole thing with plastic and left it for two days.
Here's what resulted.
Untouched. Notice all the bumps, they're for coral mounting in the future.
Here I remove the bottom form and a side so I can get the panel released. The forms were nailed to the plywood with just some finish nails that were left up so I could pull them easily.
These flew over at that point.. Good omen?
Here it is pulled from the form. Keep in mind it's basically 3/4" thick and VERY porous. It's also still wet but only about 20lbs. Dry I bet it will be about 12 to 15 pounds.
Here's one of the little tunnels. I just worked on collapsing the cardboard tubes to the center of the tunnels with my fingers then extracted them. It seemed to work well.
Onward and upward!
My present ManMadeLiveRock plan is based on the fact that the inside rear of the tank is very hard to access. I want to cover it so I don't have to try to clean it regularly. I also don't want hundreds of pounds of rock, so it needs to be light.
I only have the previously seen 2 foot wide holes in the tank top - courtesy of the 36" depth.
I also don't want a single detracting object in view. So the two central standpipes need to hidden.
I don't want my water volume displaced by a bunch of wet furniture.
While a long view; "Look thru the Rock Outcrop", is always nice it seems my requirements add up to a "Rock Wall" as far as I can tell.
Jump in if you see alternatives that you can functionally describe somehow.
I'll construct panels to fit thru the top and onto the back.
There will be three 20" wide panels across the back. Then a 12" one across the front side of the overflow. And one for the side of the overflow so the overflow is completely hidden.
I haven't decided what to to do about the two sides...
The right standpipe will have some sort of conical(?) surround rising to cover it completely. The left will probably have some sort of surround that reaches the outside corner of the overflow. This is to try to head off two similar surrounds looking too suspiciously man made.
As a start to this scheme I've built one panel.
I took a piece of plywood and nailed down some 3/4" square wood strips. I made sure they were absolutely perpendicular and 20" apart. Then I added end pieces to define the panel height to 1/2" less than the inside tank height. Because this isn't a foam build they won't float. So all that is needed will be to lower them into the tank butted up to each other and a little adhesive to keep them from failing forward.
Next, using a 5 gallon pail, and a scoop that is about a 3 quart pail, I added two scoops of Perlite, 2 scoops of oyster shells, and one scoop of white Portland cement. I stir this up until it's pretty homogenized then add 3/4 of the scoop of water reserving the remainder for tough dry spots in the mix. I mix the whole thing up with a trowel until it's mixed and damp (including the remainder of the water).
Then I dumped it into the form. I did this four times.
The first three to fill the form and the last for 3D additions. I grabbed a paper towel tube and cut it in two. I laid them on the surface and then covered them with the mix. Once done I covered the whole thing with plastic and left it for two days.
Here's what resulted.
Untouched. Notice all the bumps, they're for coral mounting in the future.
Here I remove the bottom form and a side so I can get the panel released. The forms were nailed to the plywood with just some finish nails that were left up so I could pull them easily.
These flew over at that point.. Good omen?
Here it is pulled from the form. Keep in mind it's basically 3/4" thick and VERY porous. It's also still wet but only about 20lbs. Dry I bet it will be about 12 to 15 pounds.
Here's one of the little tunnels. I just worked on collapsing the cardboard tubes to the center of the tunnels with my fingers then extracted them. It seemed to work well.
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
Looks good. I've never heard of perlite in MMLR before, did you do any research into safety in a reef environment? I have no idea what it's made of.
kcress
New member
Perlite is obsidian volcanic glass that has water trapped in it. They heat it rapidly in a furnace and the glass inflates suddenly like pop corn. This drives off the water too. It's pretty inert.
I have zero concerns though there's one person on the forums that thinks it could be an aluminum increaser. I couldn't disagree more.
There's also another RC individual who's been making and distributing MMLR made out of it for years and seen no issues - as I'd expect.
It's used to make floating concrete and as a soil amendment. As an amendment it adds 'nothing'. Its point is to add 'space' to the soil.
I have zero concerns though there's one person on the forums that thinks it could be an aluminum increaser. I couldn't disagree more.
There's also another RC individual who's been making and distributing MMLR made out of it for years and seen no issues - as I'd expect.
It's used to make floating concrete and as a soil amendment. As an amendment it adds 'nothing'. Its point is to add 'space' to the soil.
der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
I worked in a greenhouse as a kid so I handled many hundreds of pounds of the stuff; never thought to use it in MMLR. Thanks for the explanation; it does sound safe indeed.
dzfish17
New member
Santa Cruz, I spent alot of time there in the early 80s (friend went to UCSC). I think the hardest part is to keep it natural looking and not man made.
I wont be able to make pieces like youre doing since my tank is so tall (96x36x46). Im going to have to make one solid structure.
It will be interesting to see how you join the panels together. Im also curious to see how you cover the sides.
Dave
I wont be able to make pieces like youre doing since my tank is so tall (96x36x46). Im going to have to make one solid structure.
It will be interesting to see how you join the panels together. Im also curious to see how you cover the sides.
Dave
kcress
New member
I agree. I am missing the look seen here in a fellow RCer's tank(don't know what thread I saved it from). I love this look. I am trying to figure out how to do it with my mixture. I would hate to have to get involved with foam. I think the whole foam-in-the-tank method is nasty with its smell, floating, and urethane issues. But it sure looks natural in its globbiness.
46" tall?!! That is going to be a huge work challenge.
Not sure why my method wouldn't be ideal in that case. You'd just want to make the panels narrower so you can more easily handle them.
That is a concern of mine. The human eye sees straight lines instantly. I don't want the inter-panel joints to be noticeable. I'm not yet sure how defined the lines will be or what I'll need to do about it.
I'm leaning towards NOT doing the left and right sides as that will reduce the "boxed in look" that doing the back already starts causing.
dzfish17
New member
That pic actually looks pretty good. Ive seen alot of the foam stuff and dont care for that either. Im doing this once and I want it to last a long time.
The reason I decided not to use panels is because of the weight and the seams. Im afraid it will bow in the middle.
Im going to build a pvc framework, attach eggcrate with zip ties and then pieces of dry rock from marcorock.
He has rock that he cuts in half so that the back is flat. I will tie it onto the eggcrate with fishing line (hopefully).
I want to have this out a bit from the wall as to create swimming room behind the structure. I plan on having alot of holes for the fish to swim through.
Im hoping to do the sides as well. I think I can pull this off because of the 36 inches from front to back. Im still in the planning stages.
The reason I decided not to use panels is because of the weight and the seams. Im afraid it will bow in the middle.
Im going to build a pvc framework, attach eggcrate with zip ties and then pieces of dry rock from marcorock.
He has rock that he cuts in half so that the back is flat. I will tie it onto the eggcrate with fishing line (hopefully).
I want to have this out a bit from the wall as to create swimming room behind the structure. I plan on having alot of holes for the fish to swim through.
Im hoping to do the sides as well. I think I can pull this off because of the 36 inches from front to back. Im still in the planning stages.
After reading 15 pages of this thread I am now sad that there aren't 15 more pages to read through! I love this build, I'm a fabricator/welder/machinist myself, never got into electricity as I am very prone to shocking myself.
This is going to sound like a redneck way of doing things but....
For the sides I would pour a much thicker piece of mmlr and wait until it is semi dry/cured and then sand blast the hell out of it. It would give you the option of having and flat backing and then a great look on the front as you could have the deep ridges and porosity of the real thing. To finish it up and get rid of any unwanted edges hammer and chisel it.
Just my .02 cents.
I'll be tuned in on this tread till the fat lady sings, then lowers on the stand for maintenance. Lol.
This is going to sound like a redneck way of doing things but....
For the sides I would pour a much thicker piece of mmlr and wait until it is semi dry/cured and then sand blast the hell out of it. It would give you the option of having and flat backing and then a great look on the front as you could have the deep ridges and porosity of the real thing. To finish it up and get rid of any unwanted edges hammer and chisel it.
Just my .02 cents.
I'll be tuned in on this tread till the fat lady sings, then lowers on the stand for maintenance. Lol.
kcress
New member
I hope you don't end up with all your fish hiding behind your back rock.
Sounds like you'll have an interesting build going. I hope you keep us posted.
kcress
New member
Thanks Kentucky for the kind words!
Sand blasting. If I had a sand blaster I'd give it a shot.
As for rough.. This stuff couldn't be any rougher. It's extremely rough. And, water pours right thru it.
What I need is a way to make small antler-like projections and bulbous piles projecting from these panels as I form them. Of course they need to rise and actually be parallel to the surface so when the panels are vertical the projections run vertically. I wonder if I can make the basic plate and once that's formed add the desired projections bracing them with sand.
