Join me for a strange one...

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I don't think I've seen this posted yet, but out of curiosity, what's the model number on the Baldor motor you're using for the closed loop?

For detection of a secondary chain failure on the stand, why not just a single "ball in a tube" tilt switch?

 

[kcress]

miss doing CNC work myself.....it's nice to be able to have that precision at your finger tips....this is looking great so far.....what if you made some 2" collared sleeves out of PVC for over the bulkheads to prevent bending/stress at that connection?

Not sure how that would work.

If you utilize rotary unions, then you will not have stress at the fittings.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-Duff-Norton...ic_Hydraulic_Valves_Parts&hash=item20aa40534f

I would jump on them quick... $120 each for a $1500 - $3000 part. Stainless!

They are designed for continuous rotation so should be way overbuilt for what you want to use them for.

Wow, that's a cool part. And cheap too. I don't see how it would be plumbed..

 

[kcress]

Adding the hose.

Here's the only way to cut that two inch EDPM. It's also a really nice way to cut PVC.

Here's the CL plumbed.

 

[kcress]

I don't think I've seen this posted yet, but out of curiosity, what's the model number on the Baldor motor you're using for the closed loop?

For detection of a secondary chain failure on the stand, why not just a single "ball in a tube" tilt switch?

Sorry Der... That motor plate is on the back and I can't see it. This is one of the first pump models made by the Sequence people. It's their industrial model. Because of that this pump needed that spacer plate, the large aluminum ring. There's also a shaft extension.



http://www.box.net/shared/static/3oi5fn76jh.pdf

Look at this brochure. The bottom pumps setup is what mine is, except that molded spacer is taken up by a machined spacer. Note the little shaft extension.

This is a 1725 RPM pump and the impeller is number seven on that red chart.





http://www.box.net/shared/static/1xt4oi5dab.pdf

Here's the other part of the manual.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Thanks for the info. I was wondering if that was a spacer in there, and I knew it looked like a Sequence wet end but none of their current hobby pumps. And I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who uses a chop saw on PVC.

 

[kcress]

Yeah it's their "Advance 1000". I think the 1000 pertains to 1hp. The 3000 series uses a 3hp due to 3450rpm.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Wow, that's a cool part. And cheap too. I don't see how it would be plumbed..

I would extend the bulkheads via a piece of ridgid pipe long enough to create a permanent support and thread the swivel into them. As you loop expands and contracts the swivels will rotate to reduce the stress and keep the angle from getting tighter.

 

[BeanAnimal]

There are other alternatives... I have plumbed a lot of hydraulic equipment with drill heads and other equipment that must extend WITH the hoses attached. If you do find that you have problems, let me know.

No matter what, I would sugest extending the bulkheads to steel manifold blocks attached to the upper frame and lower frame. Put the stress on the steel and the manifold blocks, not the bulkheads and pumps/sump connections.

 

[4adam12]

Maybe asking before you get the chance to show but what did you end up doing inside the tank for your CL manifold?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Borrowed a friends DIY rotisserie for the club picnic last weekend. I liked it so much I am going to build my own! I have a spare VFD... I did not find any suitable GRMs (for a reasonable price) on eBay.

Where did your come from? With 175 RPM output... to a 10:1 chain that gives me good torque for the rotisserie from ~1 RPM to ~20 RPM

 

[noahm]

Borrowed a friends DIY rotisserie for the club picnic last weekend. I liked it so much I am going to build my own! I have a spare VFD... I did not find any suitable GRMs (for a reasonable price) on eBay.

Where did your come from? With 175 RPM output... to a 10:1 chain that gives me good torque for the rotisserie from ~1 RPM to ~20 RPM

Not sure how big of a rotisserie you plan on doing, but there are some pretty high torque 4-6 rpm auger motors for pellet stoves out there. You might even be able to find one (a stove) to scavenge one from (new they are about $150). I think the Earth Stove had a 6 rpm on it.

edit: heres one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PELLET-STOVE-AU...ultDomain_0&hash=item41512ae269#ht_500wt_1130

 

[kcress]

There are other alternatives... I have plumbed a lot of hydraulic equipment with drill heads and other equipment that must extend WITH the hoses attached. If you do find that you have problems, let me know.

No matter what, I would sugest extending the bulkheads to steel manifold blocks attached to the upper frame and lower frame. Put the stress on the steel and the manifold blocks, not the bulkheads and pumps/sump connections.

By mounting the pump on the stand I completely avoided the need for any sort of movable joints. Which, also spares me the volume consumed by any type of movable/flexible system including the original loops.

 

[kcress]

Borrowed a friends DIY rotisserie for the club picnic last weekend. I liked it so much I am going to build my own! I have a spare VFD... I did not find any suitable GRMs (for a reasonable price) on eBay.

Where did your come from? With 175 RPM output... to a 10:1 chain that gives me good torque for the rotisserie from ~1 RPM to ~20 RPM

I got that nice 3ph motor/gear drive off of ebay. It's a Sew brand that was used in large wrapping machines, like the ones that spin and wrap loaded pallets.

That setup would be The Item for a rotisserie. :thumbsup:.

 

[kcress]

Maybe asking before you get the chance to show but what did you end up doing inside the tank for your CL manifold?

That is open to EVERYONE's input. What I have to work from are two 30" tall, 2" diameter Sch 40 standpipes.

Obviously one is the suction and one is the discharge. Both need to be completely invisible from view. They will be hidden with MMLR structures.

I want to move a lot of water smoothly.

The suction will probably be drilled with ten bazillion small holes.

Both will be unscrewable for modification and cleaning.

Eductors?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Eductors?

Looking at the flow curve for impeller #7 in the 1000-series spec sheet you posted, your max head is around 20 ft. KTH has a performance chart for their eductors:

http://www.kthsales.com/website/Misc/Low pressure eductor flow rates.pdf

but I'm not sure if I'm reading it correctly. If you were to use two of their standard .3" orifice penductors, you'd get 10 ft of pressure and 4.6 gpm at each, and total solution movement of 23 gpm at each, for a total of 46 gpm, which is less than the ~60 gpm your pump can do wide open.

So, either your pump doesn't have enough pressure to benefit from eductors, or I'm reading the chart wrong?

I struggled with this on my tank and ended up not including them. Instead, I have two 1.5" bulkheads split with T's inside the tank for a total of 4 outlets, all just straight PVC. Of course I haven't run it yet so I don't know how it performs.

 

[kcress]

Thanks for that link Der.

Hmmm.... Most interesting.

Say I use the '8.0 feet' line, for a turned down quiet pump, and the large one 0.48 that's 68 gallons of movement for each one I add. That seems like a great flow multiplier to me, unless I have the wrong understanding.

The 22.8ft/sec is a bit confusing to me. That seems awfully fast and I thought these traded velocity for volume..

 

[4adam12]

In Luke's original kiddie pool thread he raved about how well the eductors worked and gave him so much flow but all the pictures have been gone off the thread for a while. I would have liked to have seen the plumbing on that one to see how it was all accomplished. I figured you would use eductors and am curious on the best way to plumb them. Also, Luke had a DIY eductor thread on here and he made his own for under a buck.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1214501&highlight=eductor

Again, missing pictures, be nice to find them though.

 

[kcress]

Yes that is very annoying and sad. He had them all hosted on his own in-the-garage type server that choked.

I would really like to see a picture of one of his DIY units. I would be most interested as $25 for an injection molded plastic fitting seems ridiculous to me.

Since I need this all hidden in a not so large vertical area I'd really prefer about 2 dozen really small units. Perhaps 1/4" or 3/8" sizes.

 

[4adam12]

KTH Sales has 1/4" and 3/8" ones. What were you thinking of doing, thread them directly into your 2" standpipe or use small loc-line so you can position them where you want them? 2 dozen at 25 bucks a pop is alot.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes that is very annoying and sad. He had them all hosted on his own in-the-garage type server that choked.

I would really like to see a picture of one of his DIY units. I would be most interested as $25 for an injection molded plastic fitting seems ridiculous to me.

Since I need this all hidden in a not so large vertical area I'd really prefer about 2 dozen really small units. Perhaps 1/4" or 3/8" sizes.

When I built my first skimmer, I attempted to heat PVC pipe and stretch it into venturi shapes instead of purchasing an engineered model. I built maybe a dozen prototypes with different throat diameters and angles. Some of them worked okay, but none of them as well as the engineered versions. There were just too many variables to overcome.

Not trying to take anything (at all!) away from Luke, (as we are good friends) but his DIY venturi thread was based on the exact same method... meaning that the results are hit or miss, based on how well you guess at the proper orifice size and shape compared to the pressure and flow you have available. While some of us have a better idea of the basic shape and sizes needed, most folks don't. An efficient eductor is a highly refined shape. The greater the error in the shape, the less fluid it will educt.

The question becomes: Are the $25 penguin eductors engineered shapes or just a best guess similar to what Luke and I have tried on the workbench? I can't answer that, but would guess that they are not highly engineered, but still significantly better than what we can [easily] DIY. Eduction of fluid is very hard to measure, even with sophisticated techniques.