Join me for a strange one...
- Thread starter kcress
- Start date
kcress
New member
I just measured the clearance.
With the stand down I have 17" of clearance to the floor below the bottom of the horizontal gate valve. So if the returns were an inch from the bottom with the stand down they would be out of the water 1" with the stand up. We should be able to think of something to prevent splatter and massive bubbling for that inch.
Perhaps a really lose slider collar with a float on it. When the pipe goes deep the collar floats at the surface - effectively not there.
Then when the pipe rises it's still inside this collar once it's an inch above the water. :strange:
With the stand down I have 17" of clearance to the floor below the bottom of the horizontal gate valve. So if the returns were an inch from the bottom with the stand down they would be out of the water 1" with the stand up. We should be able to think of something to prevent splatter and massive bubbling for that inch.
Perhaps a really lose slider collar with a float on it. When the pipe goes deep the collar floats at the surface - effectively not there.
Then when the pipe rises it's still inside this collar once it's an inch above the water. :strange:
kcress
New member
Lowered and ready to start testing. Note the ultra-cool plastic bin for the returns.
My son assisting.
The plan is to ONLY wet test the closed loop plumbing. That way hundreds of gallons aren't involved - yet.
I'll fill the standpipes up to the top for several feet of head pressure.
Here we are tempting fate leaving a hose un-held.
All fittings that aren't glued had their threads Teflon taped.
After filling the CL system we have threaded areas and hose clamped areas as marked.
Where do you think it leaks if you do?
Well if you guessed 3,4,5, & 6 you'd be correct!
Leak is hardly even the correct term.. These locations all dribbled with great haste, actual streams of dribble. Note the hose clamps. They're all tightened with a WRENCH even. The hose site stated "if you have trouble with leaks on the EDPM hose, use our spiral hose clamps - they will stop the leaks.". They were selling the spiral hose clamps for 13+ dollars a piece!!! You are talking 50+ bucks for hose clamps. That's why I tried the standard hose clamps.
I searched the web and found a plastics processing equipment company that had the same clamps for $2.5 a piece. That's all of them for less than the cost of one from Flexpvc.
Once I had the spirals on we tested again. Those four leaks were all stopped completely!
Moral of the story is don't even bother with big spiral hose if you aren't going to use spiral hose clamps.
Now with the streams stopped it became instantly obvious that 1,2, and 7 all leaked. So my previous question could have been answered, "all of them".
This is horrid as 1 and 2 are the threads in the bulkheads. #2 has that enormous ball valve that can't be swung and # 1 has a long glued piece that can't be swung. Plus they were tight!! Damn Teflon tape. Never again on PVC.
I stuffed my daughter in the tank with really large channel-locks. We removed both big bulkheads and cleaned all the TT off of them. Then we reassembled them with Rector Seal #4.
Subsequent testing after a day's wait.... ZERO CL leaks. BooyAH!
Drain time..
tahiriqbal
Sialkot
looking good
looking good
My my my my,,,,, skin is already peeling off!!! I think your four legged orange horse could do with a thick layer of suntan lotion on the bottom part of his legs. With time, salt creep from your sump could cause some serious rash and halt the lifting and lowing mechanism :smokin: By the way love the plastic trough for the horse too.....coming along really nice and keep the good work.
looking good
My my my my,,,,, skin is already peeling off!!! I think your four legged orange horse could do with a thick layer of suntan lotion on the bottom part of his legs. With time, salt creep from your sump could cause some serious rash and halt the lifting and lowing mechanism :smokin: By the way love the plastic trough for the horse too.....coming along really nice and keep the good work.
Good news! I hate the way all the threads are different. Sometimes you use half a roll of tape, sometimes a couple wraps. Filter housings and pump fittings are notorious for being too damned big. I have taken to using both tape and sealant. I even had to fix one of those! Luckily it was a BH that I used a TUBV on, and was easily removed and replaced.
Just last weekend on a job I had to remove a fitting from a Hayward cartridge filter 3 times to put on more tape. I was even using the 1", very thick stuff!
Glad you got it licked!
Just last weekend on a job I had to remove a fitting from a Hayward cartridge filter 3 times to put on more tape. I was even using the 1", very thick stuff!
Glad you got it licked!
kcress
New member
Tahir, that was just me being stupid and painting the sliding surfaces. All that came right back off during testing. What you see is some hard galvanizing. It won't be rusting any time soon.
kcress
New member
I highly recommend Rector Seal #4 for this stuff. So many cheap Chinese fittings have big molding flash lines that cannot be sealed with tape that TTape joints often leak. Furthermore you end up way over-tightening the fittings in the process of trying to stop the leaks. Rector Seal [which isn't what I say when referring to it:lmao:] is not a friction reduction anti-galling material but an actual leak stopping joint compound. It's approved for PVC but not ABS. I expected it to be a mess so I always grabbed for TT, but not anymore.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Blown76mav
Member
tagging along
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Don't get me wrong Chris..... PTFE tape certainly has its place! I just rarely find that place with PVC fittings that we use in aquaria. It is a shame that so many NTP plastic fittings are made so poorly.
kcress
New member
Since all the CL fittings are sound and leak free I proceeded to testing the overflow piping and bulkheads, with great trepidation I might add. Any problems with them will require cutting and replacing because you can never access the tank side of the bulkheads since they are way down that hole.
I blocked all the outlets and poured in the approximately 13 gallons.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
No leaks!! I am so relieved, especially after the CL fiasco.
OK - Time for the big test!
Bring on the hose. Luckily we have 105psi water around here. So filling is fast.
I watched everything as water was added to the tank. I kept a sharp eye out for drips hitting the light grey concrete floor. None..
With about 6 inches to full ~220g it dawned on me that the concrete on the right side around the feet seemed to be darker than I remembered. What would cause that??
ARGH!!! A leak.
The leak is subtle.
It was running down the right wall so there was no "drip".
Here's a close up of things. The leak lands on the rubber mat runs down hill to the edge which is close enough to the wall that the drops transfer to it. Then they run quietly, stealthily down the wall to the floor.
The mat ridges are pointed up so you can see the water has run under the tank a few inches in the valleys.
So where is the leak?
Close examination shows that the corner has opened up slightly, making a really thin channel across the postage stamp sized area. I need to get glue into it somehow.
I bent the needle of a glue bottle to get it around the corner to the seam. I tired to run solvent into the crack. Nothing doing. Not even the slightest amount.
After some thought..
I decided to drill into the void and see if I could get the solvent into the fissure. The smallest drill I had was 1/16". It punches a pretty big hole for a tiny glue bottle needle.
I stuck the glue bottle into the hole and tried to get the solvent to flow into the entire fissure. It was disconcertingly ineffective. It did the area above the drilled hole but not no more than a 1/16" below the hole.
If I end up having to drill 10 holes I'll have a weakened corner with those big bit drills.
Hunting around I found a hobby shop with a drill index that has #60 thru #80. The needle is #72.
Drills smaller than 1/16" can rarely be chucked in normal drills so I had to switch to a Dremel tool.
Using that I tried again. Only about a 10th above and below wicked in the solvent, sigh.
On the next hole I was very careful to not let the drill bit heat up. This is really hard using a Dremel tool but can be done. As the drill reached the fissure watching with 2x glasses I saw a diffraction circle suddenly appear around the drill. I stopped at that instant not having seen that previously. I suspect a heated drill sort of melts and keeps the fissure sealed from the drill hole.
Anyway I stuck the needle into this much tighter hole and squeezed. The entire rest of the fissure instantly filled with solvent. Great.
Only that little wave at the bottom and the skinny volcano with the pointy side pointing to the right at the very top remain un-glued. I want to do those two areas and then to complete the repair I want to inject Weldon 16 into the drilled holes.
The just descibed successful solvent fill totally clogged my needle and I haven't got it unclogged yet. So I haven't completed this task yet.
Now the bad news.. As I described this whole thing to a friend using a bright light it became obvious that the right rear corner has almost the same exact problem but.. It is totally unreachable.
That has really taken the wind out of my sails.
Clearly moving these big tanks puts immense strain on the lower corners. This tank was moved very carefully and gently but it wasn't enough.
For those of you keeping track we are up to the present in this build.
Any suggestions for the right rear corner?
I blocked all the outlets and poured in the approximately 13 gallons.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
No leaks!! I am so relieved, especially after the CL fiasco.
OK - Time for the big test!
Bring on the hose. Luckily we have 105psi water around here. So filling is fast.
I watched everything as water was added to the tank. I kept a sharp eye out for drips hitting the light grey concrete floor. None..
With about 6 inches to full ~220g it dawned on me that the concrete on the right side around the feet seemed to be darker than I remembered. What would cause that??
ARGH!!! A leak.
The leak is subtle.
It was running down the right wall so there was no "drip".
Here's a close up of things. The leak lands on the rubber mat runs down hill to the edge which is close enough to the wall that the drops transfer to it. Then they run quietly, stealthily down the wall to the floor.
The mat ridges are pointed up so you can see the water has run under the tank a few inches in the valleys.
So where is the leak?
Close examination shows that the corner has opened up slightly, making a really thin channel across the postage stamp sized area. I need to get glue into it somehow.
I bent the needle of a glue bottle to get it around the corner to the seam. I tired to run solvent into the crack. Nothing doing. Not even the slightest amount.
After some thought..
I decided to drill into the void and see if I could get the solvent into the fissure. The smallest drill I had was 1/16". It punches a pretty big hole for a tiny glue bottle needle.
I stuck the glue bottle into the hole and tried to get the solvent to flow into the entire fissure. It was disconcertingly ineffective. It did the area above the drilled hole but not no more than a 1/16" below the hole.
If I end up having to drill 10 holes I'll have a weakened corner with those big bit drills.
Hunting around I found a hobby shop with a drill index that has #60 thru #80. The needle is #72.
Drills smaller than 1/16" can rarely be chucked in normal drills so I had to switch to a Dremel tool.
Using that I tried again. Only about a 10th above and below wicked in the solvent, sigh.
On the next hole I was very careful to not let the drill bit heat up. This is really hard using a Dremel tool but can be done. As the drill reached the fissure watching with 2x glasses I saw a diffraction circle suddenly appear around the drill. I stopped at that instant not having seen that previously. I suspect a heated drill sort of melts and keeps the fissure sealed from the drill hole.
Anyway I stuck the needle into this much tighter hole and squeezed. The entire rest of the fissure instantly filled with solvent. Great.
Only that little wave at the bottom and the skinny volcano with the pointy side pointing to the right at the very top remain un-glued. I want to do those two areas and then to complete the repair I want to inject Weldon 16 into the drilled holes.
The just descibed successful solvent fill totally clogged my needle and I haven't got it unclogged yet. So I haven't completed this task yet.
Now the bad news.. As I described this whole thing to a friend using a bright light it became obvious that the right rear corner has almost the same exact problem but.. It is totally unreachable.
That has really taken the wind out of my sails.
Clearly moving these big tanks puts immense strain on the lower corners. This tank was moved very carefully and gently but it wasn't enough.
For those of you keeping track we are up to the present in this build.
Any suggestions for the right rear corner?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
1) Drill from the inside of the tank
2) Use inject WO 16, the solvent will not fill the void.
3) use a lighter to open your needle back up.
2) Use inject WO 16, the solvent will not fill the void.
3) use a lighter to open your needle back up.
serpentman
part time superhero
Since its in the rear, how about rigging a patch on the inside?
khaosinc
The cyborg reefer
I assume getting the tank back off the stand would be a huge chore. Does make fixing things a lot easier.
When I rebuilt the 250, which needed fixing in several places I got the tank up at an incline and ran WO 3 in to the seams. Filled things in nicely. Not being one to leave well enough alone, I also used a bead of WO 16 and pressed a thin strip of 1/4 by 1/4 square acrylic into the seam. Hasn't leaked since... yet.
If it were me, I would redo every edge to feel better.
I've also experimented w/ using WO 16 almost like using silicone, ant just running beads along the edge. Haven't had any issues with that sort of fix yet either, but I don't trust them as much.
When I rebuilt the 250, which needed fixing in several places I got the tank up at an incline and ran WO 3 in to the seams. Filled things in nicely. Not being one to leave well enough alone, I also used a bead of WO 16 and pressed a thin strip of 1/4 by 1/4 square acrylic into the seam. Hasn't leaked since... yet.
If it were me, I would redo every edge to feel better.
I've also experimented w/ using WO 16 almost like using silicone, ant just running beads along the edge. Haven't had any issues with that sort of fix yet either, but I don't trust them as much.
Wow, what a bummer! On the bright side, at least you caught it early.
