Join me for a strange one...

[BeanAnimal]

I didn't get as far as trying to set the carrier to anything but the default. It will be a week or two before i get around to finishing the upgrade. I will let you know how it works. Of course Baldor told me that hte motor would not work on a VFD at all

 

[kcress]

willie; Fear not - Those mean the same thing in VFD Land.

Of course Baldor told me that hte motor would not work on a VFD at all

:spin2::spin2::spin1:

 

[BeanAnimal]

DWZ, the Teco FM50 is the "non vector" version of the drive (EV series) I am using. Both are made by Westinghouse.

You should be able to set the carrier in it to achiave better (quieter) results also. There are not many other things to fiddle with (to reduce harmonic noise) in these inexpensive drives. If you still can't get a suitable "silence" then you may need to step up to a Yaskawa or similar higher end unit that can set torque, slip, interleave and other settings that can quiet undesirable harmonics.

 

[BeanAnimal]

@kcress

Yeah the Baldor tech tried to tell me that I would end up letting the smoke out of the motor and drive if I tried to control it! He went into great depth explaining why I needed the $800 inverter duty motor instead of the $300 general purpose motor! I am sure the inverter duty motor would have less harmonic noise due to the sealed windings and thick paper pole separation, but if it goes up in smoke, I will buy another on eBay. Preliminary tests were fine (other than the fact that the drive REFUSES to work on a GFCI protected circuit! I have yet to see what it does to the TV reception or fluorescent lights in my shop.

 

[frozenreefer]

wow! this is a crazy build! great work cant wait to see more

 

[kcress]

Thanks frozen! Glad you're tagging along.

Bean; The big problem with motors and VFDs was the high voltage spikes that can be caused by the inductive aspects of the motor combined with the rapid voltage changes evoked by the VFD (high DV/DT). This would work the insulation until somewhere failed - magic smoke lost - game over.

Everyone has changed over to modern insulation systems that trump these spikes with ease. Where you can still have issues is with 480V applications where the spikes start threatening the insulation again - not in 240V land. There is still the possibility of bearing pitting but that's sort of hit and miss depending on a lot of details. Mostly I see it as a miss these days.

 

[StaghornSteve]

kcress,

Just got caught up on all the progress... you are a true handyman
We all wish we had access to have the stuff you had to make this!

Cheers! Standing by for more...

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thanks frozen! Glad you're tagging along.

Bean; The big problem with motors and VFDs was the high voltage spikes that can be caused by the inductive aspects of the motor combined with the rapid voltage changes evoked by the VFD (high DV/DT). This would work the insulation until somewhere failed - magic smoke lost - game over.

Everyone has changed over to modern insulation systems that trump these spikes with ease. Where you can still have issues is with 480V applications where the spikes start threatening the insulation again - not in 240V land. There is still the possibility of bearing pitting but that's sort of hit and miss depending on a lot of details. Mostly I see it as a miss these days.

Yup I have done my research over the years and don't think I will have any problems. I laughed when the Baldor tech told me it would smoke the second I changed the drive freq.

From my understanding, bearing pitting is usually an issue on larger HP motors. In any case, I am not going to go through the trouble of putting a wiper on the shaft

 

[kcress]

Still NO leaks.

I also ran the tank up and down. I've hoped that there was no binding or other show stoppers. Instead I'm delighted to see that a full tank is a far less stressful stand load than the dead weight pallets I was using for testing. With the tank full the the drive chains that were scary tight lifting the pallets are loose with the full tank.

I believe the point loading, caused by the pallets, must have been bowing the legs which was adding a huge amount of friction loading. I am pleased with this because as you may remember I'd don't empirical measurements using my truck and commercial truck scales to arrive at the gear ratios I needed. Then I found them WAYYYYY off and had to add the second gear reduction. What I'm seeing confirms that my original design would have done the job - it was my test loads that were causing the problems. Ah well, I certainly have the lifting power I need now.


So it's time to move on.

I have an issue I'd like some thought on.

I am building three 20" wide 34-1/2" tall MMLR panels for the back. They are going to have absolutely flat backsides. The problem is that this a dang acrylic tank. That means the center of the rear face has a bow of almost 1".

If I put these MMLR walls up against the back there is going to be this large void caused by the tank bow.

I considered pre-making the MMLR panels bowed. But that won't work because the tank has to be empty and hence un-bowed when they're installed. That is also a bad plan because the bow is a very complex shape since it is a maximum in the center and changes continuously in two dimensions as you approach the sides. Trying to pre-build that would be very hard.

So.

What do I do about this void? I'm afraid if it's left to itself it will be a major nitrate factory. I can't see how I can fill it either...???

 

[kcress]

I was most frustrated with my build photos as it seemed I was missing a bunch. I searched everywhere.. Then went with what I had in the first pages of this build.

Of course yesterday I find a nebulous file folder on my work computer desktop. It has the pictures I thought I took. :spin2:

For next couple of days I'll post them about 5 at a time for your viewing pleasure. Feel free to ask any questions about the details of the construction that come to mind.

So, to start the retro build viewing, I offer these.

Finishing the top welds.

The rectangular tubing top dropped onto the legs for a fit check.

Front view.

Now to brace the legs in the front to back plane.

And now for the anti-rack bracing.

 

[swearint]

I am building three 20" wide 34-1/2" tall MMLR panels for the back. They are going to have absolutely flat backsides. The problem is that this a dang acrylic tank. That means the center of the rear face has a bow of almost 1".

If I put these MMLR walls up against the back there is going to be this large void caused by the tank bow.

I considered pre-making the MMLR panels bowed. But that won't work because the tank has to be empty and hence un-bowed when they're installed. That is also a bad plan because the bow is a very complex shape since it is a maximum in the center and changes continuously in two dimensions as you approach the sides. Trying to pre-build that would be very hard.

So.

What do I do about this void? I'm afraid if it's left to itself it will be a major nitrate factory. I can't see how I can fill it either...???

Well, you could glue in horizontal and vertical ribs to stiffen it. This would also give you mounting points for your panels.

Todd

 

[BeanAnimal]

The problem trying to stiffen the panel is that if you don't add enough, then those ribs become stress points when the tank does bow.

I don't know that I would try to fill the void, it will not be that large.

 

[qbical]

such an epic build and your welding looks great. you must have the patience of a saint to deal w that leak and everything. i would have prob wanted to sledge it lol. cant wait to see what comes next

 

[kcress]

Well, you could glue in horizontal and vertical ribs to stiffen it. This would also give you mounting points for your panels.

Todd

That would be a bit too radical for me. Not enough guts. LOL. Ribs on the inside would still leave dead water areas. Ribs on the outside would not fit the tank-to-wall space.

The problem trying to stiffen the panel is that if you don't add enough, then those ribs become stress points when the tank does bow.

I don't know that I would try to fill the void, it will not be that large.

That is also a concern as this would change the forces on the seams a lot.

So Bean, you'd just proceed and not worry about a ~3 gallon quasi dead space?

such an epic build and your welding looks great. you must have the patience of a saint to deal w that leak and everything. i would have prob wanted to sledge it lol. cant wait to see what comes next

Thanks bro! I had one blowout on a diagonal but I was able to fill it in, to my satisfaction.

 

[BeanAnimal]

So Bean, you'd just proceed and not worry about a ~3 gallon quasi dead space?

Yeah enough water will move through there that it will not create a problem. Think of it as in in tank benthic/cryptic zone

 

[kcress]

Strut welding.

Brace.

Diagonal welding.

This is my welding helmet. I show it to you only to warn you that it is a piece of garbage. !!Avoid!! :thumbdown

It has no OFF switch so the $15 worth of hard-to-find batteries are killed with it just sitting on the shelf. So, every time you go to use it it's got dead batteries. So I attacked with some DIY. I hacked the batteries putting in the AA pack. Plus I can unseat one battery to turn it all off.

Here's my TIG torch. I'm happy with it.:celeb1:

 

[kcress]

Yeah enough water will move through there that it will not create a problem. Think of it as in in tank benthic/cryptic zone

Cool. I'll proceed then.

 

[kcress]

The across the back brace receiver. Keep in mind this entire stand is a break down stand, hence some of the plug-in aspects.

Here it is with the back brace installed.

Here's one of the two upper anti-racking diagonal mount points. You might note the dual drive gears here too.

It's got this bolted to it.

This is all the various connectors including a bottom rear diagonal coming from the last two pics down to the bottom.


.

 

[beex215]

so many bumps on the road. its good that they were fixed. this build seems to complex but its good so far.

 

[mrfish55]

Thanks for posting your build, you clearly have a terrific sense of humor and a mad scientist way of doing things (I mean this in a good way) I can honestly say for as long as I have been in the hobby your tank lift is definately a first. Looking forward to more updates:thumbsup: