Just because you read about it doesn't mean it will improve a new tank...

Sk8r

Staff member
RC Mod
New tanks have special bennies: low nitrates and clean water, clean rock, clean sand, but enough dirt to have the biosystem going. It often means coral really loves a new tank. But too much 'kindness' can really screw things up and kill stuff.

It's downright dangerous to read up on various methods applied to tanks much more mature and rush to apply them. Or even scarier---to apply them without reading the fine print like dosing levels of say, vodka, vinegar, etc.

It's not like a hierarchy where advanced members get secret info and substances that will turn bare rock and sand into lush coral gardens, or that will instantly turn your fish into show animals that live in perfect harmony---no. Sadly there is no secret handshake, there are no magic potions, or secret foods, and there is no 'higher knowledge' that doesn't come of starting simple and learning the way tanks work.

It's, in other words, a journey. Do not buy every gadget and every chemical and every food the lfs has to sell. ANYBODY can claim to have a fish miracle product: it's unregulated by the feds, and if they can manage to market it, it's out there. Some are sound products. Some can actually hurt your tank.

Above all, don't dose anything you don't have a test for; and everybody should buy tests and supplement for alkalinity. Everybody should have a refractometer (1.024 is the magic number: that way evaporation won't kick your salinity up over 1.026, which is the upper limit.) If you have clams or stony corals, you need tests and supplements for calcium, and magnesium. That's it.

In the way of foods, you need green food for herbivores like tangs and blennies; you need red or meaty food for carnivores. Mysis shrimp are edible by just about everybody, but feeding all mysis will not give a tang, eg, its greens, and it will not thrive. Feed appropriately what will be gone in half a minute. Target feeding? You'll hear about it. Requires a pipette or soda straw, and delivers food to a coral that needs it. But try not to get something that needs it. You've got enough on your hands with the newness of your tank. Things that have to be target fed are often fragile. Also do not get any dragonet (mandarin, scooter) if your tank is under 50 gallons; even so, it takes 30 gallons of productive MATURE refugium to feed them. A new tank should not have one of these. Anemones are another problem. You can lose your whole tank if one of these investigates a powerhead. They crawl. They fly about the tank on the current. They hide in the rocks. All this in reaction to unstable water conditions: and in a new tank---you have unstable water conditions. A lot.

Do your water changes. Do NOT dose 'cures' for this or that condition into your tank without consulting here on RC: the Chemistry forum is a good place to ask complicated questions.

In general, do not freak out at hitchhikers: if you can collect them in a dish, get a photo and ask: most are beneficial; a very few aren't. Worms may look icky, but you need them. There are only 2 bad ones. Crabs, isolate and ask. There are very few good ones. But even bad guys can live safely in your sump.

Keep your alkalinity between 7.9 and 9. 8.3 is nice middle ground.
Keep your salinity at 1.024 and top off (an autotopoff is pretty well essential) regularly. Never, ever, ever forget.
Keep your nitrate 20-ish for fish-only, 10 for softies and fish; 5 for lps and fish; and a fraction of 1 for sps. What controls nitrate? Your water changes and your skimmer and live rock/sand. If your skimmer isn't enough, you can't win.

If you have stony coral or clams, you need 420 calcium and 1300 (above 1200 and under 1500) magnesium. Do this by dosing or by kalk in the ato, qv.

These are goals: things won't instantly explode if you don't get there, but if you can get there and stay there, you will have entirely enough to do without tinkering with fixes meant for exotic problems or pouring unknown substances into your tank because the ad looked persuasive. Ask. Always ask. In general, keep it SIMPLE for starters, and complicate your job only after you've gotten the basics under control.
 
All in all, good info.

Maybe a little over the top on a couple of issues, like topping off the tank to keep your salinity at 1.024. Everybody in your tank except for the very most delicate can tolerate a day to day change in salinity due to evaporation or top off RO/DI. And any salinity from 1.020 to 1.028 is OK. I wouldn't go outside those limits, but to go from 1.024 today to 1.25 tomorrow due to evaporation and then down to 1.023 due to adding too much water the next day isn't really going to hurt anything. So saying,"Keep your salinity at 1.024 and top off (an auto topoff is pretty well essential) regularly. Never, ever, ever forget," is kind of over the top IMHO. And auto topoff isn't a bad thing, but it's far from being essential!
 
THat's why. Evap over several days, varying with weather, can head you into bad territory. New hobbyists forget things because they're not habit yet. Disasters happen (Aunt Margaret is sick and you need to go) and over all, we're talking about getting yourself leeway for little mistakes not to become big ones, and establishing a baseline that's got some wiggle room.
 
Could not agree more, it amazes me how many people dump the newest additives and supps sometimes to extremes, and sometimes actually end up polluting their tanks or throwing params out of whack.
I keep my system pretty simple
 
good stuff..

I liked how you alluded to it but then played it off like we don't have a secret handshake.. sneaky :p
 
I agree that this is very good info. Im just starting off again after a 20 year hiatus and some of this info has been forgotten over the years.

I do want to ask though. I have always been told not to chase the water to achieve that perfect water quality. It will come with time. I personally do not chase it but is this a true statement?
 
You start with ro/di water---ONLY ro/di water, which has nothing left in it, add your salt mix, which has the elements you need in proportions you need (one hopes: choose the right salt); and then you run a skimmer, plus your live rock/sand; and keep the nitrate as low as possible and the alkalinity in the zone. If you let the one rise and the other sink, your critters will suffer. So yes: don't so much 'chase' those parameters, as keep within them, by autotopoff, by testing daily at first, and by judicious use of alk buffer and adjustment of your skimmer. If you have stonies, you have two other elements to track. But it is now possible through testing and careful use of supplements, to land pretty precisely 'in the zone', and staying there will assure your fish have nice protective slime coats and your corals are able to 'eat.'

I sympathize. I laid out for 7 years and came to a changed world of skimmers and kalk dosing, but it is sooooo much easier now than it used to be. Here's a neat bit of chemistry which duplicates chemically what the ocean does by dissolving old coral: you first set your magnesium at 1300 or higher by dosing. THEN you bring the alkalinity up to 8.3. Once that is steady, add calcium to reach 420. If you next put kalk in the ato, the water's dissolving power once that calcium (kalk) flows into the display salt water, means that it is coral-ready. Not only that, the chemistry will stay locked on those numbers, never falling, until the system either runs out of kalk/water mix, or until the magnesium falls below 1200---I can run my system for 3 months on end without dosing so long as I keep adding fresh water and kalk to the reservoir. Ocean magic, working for millions of years, turning old coral into new coral constantly. it has to do with acidity and solubility of calcium and all that, but the simplest way to remember it is by the numbers: 1300 mg, 8.3 alk, and 420 cal.
 
It's dead easy. Testing for the basics is precise, (finding out the alk, etc) but kalk is so imprecise you can just dump it into the ato in a reasonable (but excessive) amount. ONLY 2 tsp per gallon is able to dissolve into 8.3 alk seawater, so it doses itself as evaporation causes the ato to deliver fresh water to the sump: add more fresh ro/di and more kalk dissolves, but ONLY 2 tsp per gallon. One of the cheapest most goof-proof automations you'll ever arrange, and assures you can feed a reef during a very long road trip, without having to have a tanksitter do THAT part---and with a good autofeeder, you really only have to have the tanksitter come in every few days to be sure the fresh water hasn't run out. Your fish will appreciate nice food, but they'll be fine on dry flake until you get back. Goodness knows my fish will eat anything that falls into the tank.
 
One other point about kalk---almost everybody who uses it as a novice has an accident with it---but not a kalk accident: a topoff accident, in which the topoff delivers an excess amount, and the tank turns white. I have heard of dozens and dozens of such glitches; I've done a few myself. I've only ever heard of one where a coral suffered damage, and in that one case I'm not sure it was the kalk that did it. Mostly you just treat it as a topoff accident (which it is) and worry about your salinity, not the kalk. If kalk powder is all over your corals, blow it off with a turkey baster. But it's pretty harmless. It'll get used, over time. Kalk does come in at a ph of 12, so if you really, really dusted it, check ph, and if it's ghastly off, bring it down with one teaspoon of Schweppe's Bar Soda (unsweetened) per 50 gallons. That's fifty. Five-oh. One teaspoon; and wait, because the system self-adjusts really, really fast, and you don't want to push it too low. Also, don't get Tonic Water by mistake!!!! [labels are alike and the grocery shelves them together.] I know it sounds a bit odd, telling you to use grocery products like Mrs. Wages' Pickling Lime [kalk] and Schweppe's, but they are what they are: powdered calcium with very little impurity; and soda water.
 
I've been thinking that I'll forgo the ATO and just add as needed, but the more I learn about it, like using it for dosing kalk, the more I warm to the idea. I won't be needing kalk for some time, but I do have a question about how it's done. If the ATO is in the sump, does the top off water go into the sump also, or should it go into the display? The reason I ask is that the Tunze ATO system is able to pump up to 7ft, so it sounds like it would pump into the DT. Is it better for it to go in the sump so that kalk gets distributed more evenly as it comes out the returns?

In a system with a covered display, you won't have as big an issue with evaporation. In this case, since there will be less topping off, meaning less kalk, would you just be using kalk in the ATO as supplemental to other methods?

Are there other things that you can use the ATO for?
 
The ato SENSOR goes in the sump. So does a tube (ideally 1/4" airhose, a reduction by several reducer-inserts, from the 1/2" outflow (I think 1/2") of an Eheim pump. I say Eheim, because I know it's tough enough to pump kalked water without its impeller wearing out: Maxijets aren't.
So: drop kalk into your ato reservoir, and put an Eheim pump with a (reduce it to) 1/4" line going up to the sump. Its PLUG goes into the ATO unit that's plugged into your power supply. This ATO unit acts as a gateway: if it's 'on' , triggered by a switch in your sump, it turns on the Eheim for a few seconds to pump kalkwater up that little hose into your sump. Note: your must LID the kalked ro/di. Loosely is fine, but it will form a skin on exposure to air that is kind of gunky and undesirable, not harmful, however.

Your sump has a) the water level sensor, and b) a well-secured 1/4" line from the Eheim pump. You set that water level sensor where it needs to be, and when evaporation lowers the water level enough, the sensor triggers the ATO unit at the plugin, and IT triggers the Eheim which is plugged into IT. The Eheim pumps for a few seconds, and as the water level in the sump rises, it triggers the ATO unit again to cut the power OFF, and the Eheim stops. I've used two topoffs that have never failed me: the Avast and the autotopoff.com one. The Avast is simplest, really good, but is very vulnerable to being nudged out of position because you bumped its tube out of position. Don't bump the tube and you'll never have a problem with it. At least it always errs on the side of NOT pumping, thus letting your water level fall a little. Take your pick. An ATO doesn't require a controller (I've never had one) but it can use one, if you have one.

I have a covered display. The tank still evaporates a gallon a day. (105 gallon). If your kalk supply ends up being too little for your corals, you can switch from kalk to a calcium reactor, which uses a co2 tank to force greater amounts of calcium into the topoff, but only really big reefs use these.

The ato is just so your salinity stays steady and your calcium level/chemistry stays steady, well, and so you can eventually go on a vacation without having to trust a tanksitter to maintain tank chemistry. It can also assure that meds in a hospital tank maintain an even dosage; but you need a separate (uninfected) unit for that use.
 
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My vacation procedure, btw: I set an Eheim autofeeder to discharge into the tank. You can use more than one feeder: don't mix types/sizes of food because the slider can only handle one setting. Put a little hose on the skimmer output, set it to skim 'dry', and direct the outflow to a bucket. A big one.
I make up a lot of ro/di, in 2 big Rubbermaid Brute barrels. I set my ATO with kalk enough (dissolved and not) in the first of these, and give my tanksitter instructions to dip water from tank 2 into tank 1 every few days. THis (a) mixes the kalk as much as it will ever need (kalk stirrrers are unnecessary with this method) and (b) keeps kalkwater flowing uninterrupted to the tank.
That's ALL the tanksitter has to do. It's not rocket science and your elderly aunt/uncle can do it with no other instruction than that. Give them a phone number and tell them call if anything looks 'not right.'
 
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