Karim's 1500gal dream reef

Need more than a trencher. I need a backhoe.

A cheap chinese non-powered backhoe from Harbor Freight is $2.7K ~ 8ft reach

https://www.harborfreight.com/9-hp-towable-backhoe-62365.html

Renting a full power backhoe for a couple of days is $720 for the same reach

https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment/detail/897/0530110/2wd-mini-backhoe-8ft-dig-depth/#

Why rent for a week? because I don't know how to use one and I expect it'll take me some time to learn :D

Thanks for the input - this project requires a lot of different skills (most of which I'm still developing), so I appreciate any experienced input.
 
Still working the costs... Not on track to bring this in under $50K.

here's where the bids are coming in
$12,000 Slab
$15,000 Steel frame (https://www.versatube.com/design-your-own/?id=153475)
$4,000 Tempered glass for sunroom
$6,000 Aquarium Glass
$1,000 Powerheads Jebao 16
$700 Backroom surge tanks 2 (https://www.ntotank.com/325gallon-acerotomold-white-opentop-containment-tank-x8666939)
$300 Settling tank (https://www.ntotank.com/400gallon-crmi-natural-white-cylindrical-open-top-tank-x6907055)
$500 Dirty sump (https://www.ntotank.com/625gallon-acerotomold-white-opentop-containment-tank-x9873974)
$900 Clean sump (https://www.ntotank.com/1300gallon-norwesco-black-opentop-containment-tank-x8829122)
$400 Raise RODI reservoirs x 2 (https://www.ntotank.com/210gallon-acerotomold-white-opentop-containment-tank-x7576884)
$200 Vacuums 3
$200 Sinks 3 (https://www.amazon.com/Mustee-28F-Utilatub-Laundry-24-Inch/dp/B00E82WV8K & one on hand)
$200 Sunroom fans

That's $41.6K so far... !

Here are the other reef items still being "budgeted" ~ $12K:
Wood base ~ TBD est ~ $1000
Epoxy ~ TBD est ~$800
Plumbing ~ TBD (some already on hand) est ~$1000
Cinderblock and Concrete GFRC ~ TBD est ~$1000
Acrylic overflow ~ TBD $200
Acrylic covers ~ TBD $200
Acrylic powerhead box ~ TBD $200
Acrylic surge-scrubber-feeders ~ TBD $500
Acrylic sump-run ~ TBD est $100
Actuated valves 2" ~ TBD est $50 each
Delivery charges for plastic tanks ~ TBD $1000
Back room wood frame for raised tanks ~ TBD est $1000
Acrylic surge tank ~ TBD est $400
Sand & Rocks ~ TBD est $2000
External ATS & Plants ~ TBD est $1000
UV LED Lights ~ TBD est $1000
Phyto ~ TBD $50

And the sunroom items ~$11K+
Digging and plumbing the water, electric and gas ~ TBD $500
Digging and plumbing the underground heat exchangers ~ TBD $200
Walkway concrete ~ TBD $1000
Backup HVAC ~ TBD $4000
Backup cooling tower ~ TBD $500
Backup solar panels ~ TBD ~~~~
Backup batteries & charging ~ TBD ~~~~
Back room wood frame & Hardiebacker ~ TBD est ~ $2000
Sunroom wood floor ~ $1000
Sunroom actuated platform ~ $1000
Covered walkway ~ $1000

And some stuff I already have:
Generator ~ On hand
Chiller ~ On hand
APEX ~ On hand
Eggcrate & Plumbing ~ On hand
Air injector ~ On hand
Kalkwasser ~ On hand
Fuge ~ On hand
Level sensors ~ On hand
Pumps ~ On hand
Quarantine tanks ~ On hand

I think I need a gofundme account like the what the King of DIY Aquariums did. LOL!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cYX89jt2Jbw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

IMO - My video is "cooler" - but I'm not putting myself out there in person yet. :D
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/z00RZimQGks" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
one mistake I made with my current tank was having too much rock which is now constraining my corals. The coral density forces them out of the surface and pushing/killing each other.

So - I'm working out a coral packing density and rockwork plan...

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zpsk1c8gxrq.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zpsk1c8gxrq.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsk1c8gxrq.jpg"/></a>

pink rock = has return flow inside it to pump out against other rockwork
grey rock = hollow concrete

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/1_zpsaicykcko.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/1_zpsaicykcko.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zpsaicykcko.jpg"/></a>

This is why I'm doing it.. I suspected that a lot of work wasn't going to be doing any good - need to simplify

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/2_zpst9tyhtfn.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/2_zpst9tyhtfn.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2_zpst9tyhtfn.jpg"/></a>

I think there may be a geometric solution for packing density here...

and this is why I need this much flow... the water has to get through that...

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/3_zpsbb0yfcj3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/3_zpsbb0yfcj3.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3_zpsbb0yfcj3.jpg"/></a>
 
Will you be covering the inner walls (such as on the overflow guide) with rocks to create two distinct channels on either side of the tank? It would create an illusion of size so that you can't see the other glass wall of the tank.

Thoughts of lighting of the underground channels?
 
Given the 8' span and 12' length from glass to glass, I think it'll project depth just because the water will actually start to be less clear in the far distance.

I will be covering all internal glass with rockwall, branches and ledges just because I don't like the look of a glass overflow.
 
For the underground, a strong LED flashlight is all I plan to use. I don't like running wire into the water unless absolutely necessary... even low voltage LED. It's a maintenance hassle and I'm lazy.
 
Not sure how you can reduce costs.
Though, if you are serious about buying I'd recommend a bobcat. They're costly, but you can use them for so many different jobs.

Also, what program are you using to design your project? I'm stuck with using MS Paint xD
 
I use sketchup by Google. It's free and has a large contributed library. I've contributed my coral model, for example.

I need the deepest trough I can get to, so the backhoe arm and reach are important.

Thanks for helping :)

I'm open to any ideas to get the cost in control. At this point, it'll delay the project indefinitely... I really thought that $50k was an achievable target given that I'm going DIY on most things including the tank itself and even the sunroom is DIY.

The original quote for the sunroom alone (without the slab) was $50k.. and I managed to bring it down with DIY to $21K. With the slab, it's $33K... I'm saving on having lights but WOW - that sun is an expensive light...
 
Last edited:
so... this approach wasn't very effective. starting with where rock would go and then figuring out how the corals could sit... that's how I got in trouble with my current tank.


<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zpsk1c8gxrq.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zpsk1c8gxrq.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsk1c8gxrq.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/1_zpsaicykcko.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/1_zpsaicykcko.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zpsaicykcko.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/2_zpst9tyhtfn.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/2_zpst9tyhtfn.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2_zpst9tyhtfn.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/3_zpsbb0yfcj3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/3_zpsbb0yfcj3.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3_zpsbb0yfcj3.jpg"/></a>

so I decided to go backwards. I'll look at the coral locations first and then figure out what structures could possibly support them. The geometrical approach is solid, imo.

So, here's my optimization:

1. I'd like to be able to access coral without reaching over or behind other coral.

2. I'd like to make sure every rock or structure serves a coral-holding purpose. No rock for rock's sake.

3. Avoid shadowing effects (light). This is sunlit, so the moving light source actually makes this easier.

4. Avoid shadowing effects (flow). This is to avoid creating very dense structures (including coral growth) that creates substantial impedance to water flow.

The control variables are:

1. size of coral (diameter).
2. height of coral.
3. location of coral from a bird's eye view.

I decided to use 4 different coral sizes - 4", 6", 8" and 10"
and 13 heights color coded.

white = 0" off the concrete floor
grey = -4" (down)
black = -8"

red = +3" (this is at the sand surface)
orange = +4"
gold = +5"
yellow = +6"
lime = +7"
green = +8"
cyan = +9"
blue = +10"
purple = +11"
pink = +12"

The geometry can be easily described this way:

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/1_zpsctjvdkpx.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/1_zpsctjvdkpx.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zpsctjvdkpx.jpg"/></a>

This avoids the most critical failure I have in my current tank where lower level ledges are unusable for coral placement. This is how I see corals growing.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zpsloybszmr.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zpsloybszmr.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpsloybszmr.jpg"/></a>

the height variance allows me to increase the packing density without restricting flow:

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/2_zpsslscuoo9.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/2_zpsslscuoo9.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2_zpsslscuoo9.jpg"/></a>
 
this is also more fun than budgeting ... I needed a break from number crunching.

So, I decided to pick a date = April 1st (I know - April fool's) since it's about in the middle between the winter and summer solstice...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6CJymh9vCGc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Just a thought:
Since there is such a large difference between the price of sunroom from before and after the DIY, maybe you could do the same with the slab. Some quick math with estimates as to your total cubic yards of concrete and the average price of a cubic yard of concrete shows that that amount of concrete should only cost in the range of $3000. If you have a few able-bodied friends or family, you should be able to do it. I know my Dad did a similar area with him, myself, his brother, and nephew. Then again, if you have little to no experience working with concrete, the savings might not be worth the risk. This is not something you want cracking under pressure.
 
I guess one option that I keep going back to is to use the concrete floor and put up concrete side walls with flat blocks to make the sump.
 
$500 Dirty sump (https://www.ntotank.com/625gallon-acerotomold-white-opentop-containment-tank-x9873974)
$900 Clean sump (https://www.ntotank.com/1300gallon-norwesco-black-opentop-containment-tank-x8829122)

Thats $1400. I think I can do it for $400 with concrete, concrete water blocker and epoxy. The sumps are shallow.

These are also massive tanks so shipping on them was likely to be $500. All combined, that would be a $1500 savings.

I also think it would be a lot more durable... I know that concrete can crack but the slab there is 18" thick with three layers of rebar! The sides could break but the last time I used concrete block glued and coated in epoxy, I couldn't break it without a sledgehammer!

Thoughts?
 
I think that would be an effective and cheap way to build a sump. If you wanted to double down on the liner you could always include pond liner over the epoxied concrete. I would think the main point of failure would be where the block joins the slab, but as long as you are careful there something like that should hold water for a decade pretty easily.
 
Any strong voices of dissent on the concrete sump?

I'm glad that I went through the plastic sump exercise because in case of a failure, I know that I've sized the design to accommodate pre-existing products.
 
I don't see any major issues with the concrete sump. I know some people kept on going on about how a child could knock over a low concrete wall and how you were going to kill yourself, but I think it should be fine. As stated above, you will want to make sure that the sump walls are firmly attached to one another and that the sump cannot slide around on the slab. Maybe think about sitting the sump in the slab by 2 or 3 inches.
 
The slab is super expensive ~ $12,000 (reduced from the original quote of $20,000).

I'm trying to minimize any additional cost there, but I'll look at the cost of adding vertical rebars around the sump perimeter. Then I can probably just tie horizontal rebar and around the corners for support. Then I can plywood form the sides and pour. That should be solid and reasonably cheap... I think.

One counterpoint is that it's permanent ... very permanent...
 
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