Keeping SPS is soooo hard and expensive! Thinking about quitting after 2 years.

True, for the most part. But the OP was a question of why the SPS is dying. As you said, there's more than one way to skin a cat and I think we can agree that the high nutrients and low water parameters across the board are to blame in this situation. Now how that is rectified is another.

I would say start by changing out filter socks on a twice a week schedule, with well cleaned, if not new socks. Also dosing some quality 2 part and mag, along with a reliable quality set of test kits. That will fix the parameters and once they are in tune with the salt mixs, and only then, would I suggest a 30% water change to clean up the water a little. Get the GFO back online, starting at half the recommended amount too.

Please correct me if anyone disagrees.
 
nothing really looks bad parameter wise. alk is a little low, but not lower then sea levels. euyphilla growth shows phos isn't inhibiting calcium uptake, so im not seeing a nutrient thing unless acro's are just that bothered by nitrates. even then the low alk + nitrates point to excess bacterial action backed up by the 7.9-8.1 ph level.

but I have a feeling chemical warefare has more of a part in it. random RTN events might show this

Kufer, have you seen any noticeable effects right after you change out carbon?

IMO carbon exhausts itself much quicker then a month.

you could try changing it each week and see if that helps
 
PhaneSoul said:
nothing really looks bad parameter wise. alk is a little low, but not lower then sea levels. euyphilla growth shows phos isn't inhibiting calcium uptake, so im not seeing a nutrient thing unless acro's are just that bothered by nitrates. even then the low alk + nitrates point to excess bacterial action backed up by the 7.9-8.1 ph swings.



but I have a feeling chemical warefare has more of a part in it. random RTN events might show this



Kufer, have you seen any noticeable effects right after you change out carbon?



IMO carbon exhausts itself much quicker then a month.



you could try changing it each week and see if that helps
Click to expand...


IF it is a chemical warfare issue, which I'm not totally convinced is the case, but is def a possibility, then I would be changing out carbon every 10 days or so, until there's a turn for the better. Carbon is very beneficial IMO in this case, regardless of the exact problem causing the RTN and can be exhausted in as little as two weeks in "normal" conditions and even less at times of more highly contaminated water, regardless of the contaminant. I agree 100% with getting some fresh clean carbon running in there are keep changing it on a regular cycle of no more than every 2 weeks tops.
 
how long has the leather been in the tank?


Compatibility and Social Behaviors

The Common Toadstool Coral is aggressive. The S. glaucum is toxic toward other corals due to their release of terpenes (poisons to ward off encroaching corals). They have been known to harm some stony coral species of Acropora like the Staghorn Acropora A. formosa, some species of Porites like P andrewsii, as well as the death of Catalaphyllia, Euphyllia, and Plerogyra species.

This species can generally be housed with fishes, shrimp, and hermit crabs. Be careful if a clownfish decides to use a S. glaucum as a surrogate anemone. The irritation of the clown can prevent the coral from expanding. In this case removal of the clown, or screening off the coral from the fish may be needed.

In the wild there are various copepods (tiny, shrimp-like crustaceans) found on this species. There are also several species of flatworms (planaria), nudibranchs, and other parasites that tend to feed on its tissue. If these pests are present, they can usually be removed with a simple 5 minute freshwater dip.

I have seen quite a few issues where a bit of mystery is involved often having a leather in the tank


Compatibility and Social Behaviors

The Common Toadstool Coral is aggressive. The S. glaucum is toxic toward other corals due to their release of terpenes (poisons to ward off encroaching corals). They have been known to harm some stony coral species of Acropora like the Staghorn Acropora A. formosa, some species of Porites like P andrewsii, as well as the death of Catalaphyllia, Euphyllia, and Plerogyra species.

This species can generally be housed with fishes, shrimp, and hermit crabs. Be careful if a clownfish decides to use a S. glaucum as a surrogate anemone. The irritation of the clown can prevent the coral from expanding. In this case removal of the clown, or screening off the coral from the fish may be needed.

In the wild there are various copepods (tiny, shrimp-like crustaceans) found on this species. There are also several species of flatworms (planaria), nudibranchs, and other parasites that tend to feed on its tissue. If these pests are present, they can usually be removed with a simple 5 minute freshwater dip.

http://animal-world.com/Aquarium-Co...tool-Coral#Compatibility and Social Behaviors

just a quick google search for that info, but nonetheless something to think about
 
I haven't read all the suggestions, but 2 Hydra 52s isn't enough lighting for a 150g tank.

Looking at your aqua scape suggests you may have peaks where the hot spots of the discs are.........You want the exact opposite. You want lower rock areas where the lights show the most intensity.

Find a way to produce consistent lighting across the whole tank if you want success with acroporas.

Also, you don't need both GFO & bio pellets............get a recirculating reactor for the bio pellets if you want to keep them.

The way you're set up now your bacteria populations will never be stable.

Stop adding the KZ supplements........you can go back to them if you need more PO4 or No3, but right now simplify & stabilize your set up.
 
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On the subject of rdsb. How do you set one up? Do you plumb it from the sump as like the "last stage" before being returned to the dt?
 
kurfer said:
Thanks for the reply.

I keep my tank at 35ppt, using 3 refratometer's calibrated via solution and LFS (3 different stores). I really only use the Apex as a tool to measure my change in salinity and rather ignore the actual number (reads 36.8) calibration on that tool is spotty at best. I just like a reference number to see how much it changes after WC and to alert in case of ATO failure.

3 alk test kits...dont keep them long I test pretty much daily so I go through them alot.

SPS stay on top of rocks, acans on sandbed. The one in the shade is actually the worst off.

Lights are:

2 hydra 52 12 inches above water and here are my light settings:

L7vffjH.jpg
Click to expand...
I don't know if this has been suggested yet but your UV is high like really high could be causing you corals to burn up I have two hydra 26 over my tank I have my UV between 10 and 20%. I would suggest turning it down and recording results till you find the sweet spot for your tank
 
kurfer said:
Params seem to move slowly...

This contradicts everything iv'e read about ULNS reef tanks. Some of the best SPS tanks iv'e seen have been running some type of ULNS setup whether it be Pellets, Vodka, Vinegar, Zeo etc...
Click to expand...

With phosphates, it's about a sudden drop when you change your GFO. FWIW, I use less than recommended, change it more often, and when I change it, I reduce the flow for one of two days before I go back to full flow.

I've also read where people start with half the recommended amount of pellets and end up never using much more. Maybe some people using pellets will chime in.
 
I am a lazy reefer...I do not check nitrates, Phosphates or much of anything else .....So take my advice with a grain of salt. I have a 180 mixed and everything is growing well, no issues with algae tank overall looks good
I believe your lights are set to low. I have my 3 /hydra52's set about the same as yours but my whites are set at 58%
 
kurfer said:
Zoas, they just don't stay open and eventually wither away...even the cheap green ones
Click to expand...

Back up and restart there. Fix the zoas problem and that might fix your SPS problem.

It's a lot cheaper to experiment on/fix zoas. If I had to take a guess, the problem is definitely in your water somewhere.
:beer:
 
How is fixing the zoa's gonna fix the sps? They require 2 different nutrient environments. Zoa's come from lagoons, nutrient rich and inorganics for food. Sps like nutrient poor waters and organic foods.
 
steventaylor702 said:
I don't know if this has been suggested yet but your UV is high like really high could be causing you corals to burn up I have two hydra 26 over my tank I have my UV between 10 and 20%. I would suggest turning it down and recording results till you find the sweet spot for your tank
Click to expand...

Hardly to high, if anything lots of the levels are low, including UV.
 
Wazzel said:
Hardly to high, if anything lots of the levels are low, including UV.
Click to expand...
It depends on the size of the tank and I have personally watched the UV have a serious effect on my corals just wanted to throw that out there expecially since I was having the same problems with the same corals and dialing back the UV fixed the issue
 
PhaneSoul said:
How is fixing the zoa's gonna fix the sps? They require 2 different nutrient environments. Zoa's come from lagoons, nutrient rich and inorganics for food. Sps like nutrient poor waters and organic foods.
Click to expand...

Zoa's and SPS can and do thrive in the same tank. If a little of lots of things are dying it sounds like a system problem.

Personally, I think you are trying to keep to many types together. I would never keep leathers with SPS and LPS. Ditch the leathers to keep SPS or ditch the SPS and keep the leathers.

If relatively easy things are just withering and dying, you may be starving the tank. Try reducing or removing the GFO and carbon (if you take the leathers out).
 
steventaylor702 said:
It depends on the size of the tank and I have personally watched the UV have a serious effect on my corals just wanted to throw that out there expecially since I was having the same problems with the same corals and dialing back the UV fixed the issue
Click to expand...

The UV on a hydra52 is four 5 watt diodes, not that powerful to start with. I run mine at 84% with no ill effects.
 
Everyone has their 'pet' theories I suppose as to why one tank has SPS that thrive and another does not. SPS can be really twitchy - they can do well for a long time, then suddenly crash for no apparent reason. Sometimes it's chemistry, sometimes its light, sometimes its an infection/disease of some kind. Personally I have never been able to keep SPS successfully in a tank that contained a lot of soft corals; though I can keep a few of the latter in a tank that is SPS dominated. SPS, LPS and Zooanthids should co-exist without any issues though.

Depending upon what you think of them, submitting a water sample for Triton testing might be worth a shot. I recently had some STN issues in a few of my smaller SPS colonies and sent in a water sample just to see if the issue was chemistry. Turned out my water was almost perfect (other than a couple of minor issues related to the salt I use - bromine and lithium) so whatever the reason, and I'm still not sure, it was elsewhere. If you are going to keep SPS successfully, you really want to keep your nutrient levels as low as possible (nitrates and phosphates), and there are many ways to accomplish this (with or without carbon dosing). Good husbandry is important, though I myself spend far less time than most removing detritus. Zooanthids, however, are - or should not - be at all sensitive to high nutrient levels. Some years ago I maintained a tank with nitrates around 100 and my zoos grew gangbusters (so did the GHA, unfortunately).

The other suggestion I would have is that relative levels of things like alkalinity can be more important than the absolute level, as long as you are within the right range. I have had issues with SPS in the past that I traced back to fluctuating alkalinity levels. As the corals grow (and if you keep large clams, as I do) your Alk can drop really quickly if you don't keep an eye on it. I tend to run my tank on the high side, 10-12 dkh, but it will drop to 6 or 7 in a couple of days if something goes amiss (calcium reactor clogs; 2-part runs out; forget to add kalk to the top-off water, etc.). Automation can be your friend in this regard (particularly for me because I have high-travel job), though vigilance is most important :)
 
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