KILLER whales
- Thread starter Gary Majchrzak
- Start date
superkat
Premium Member
yup. that's the one.
Spock: They like you very much, but they are not the hell "your" whales.
Dr. Gillian Taylor: I suppose they told you that.
Spock: The hell they did.
sg1838
New member
That's basically my suggestion, but substitute people for the penguins.
And Kat - I remember that part of the movie. I forget who convinced Spock that he had to curse to fit into the modern day U.S. (probably Kirk) - very funny though to hear (it would be like hearing a nun curse).
superkat
Premium Member
yup, it was Kirk...walking down the promenade talking about the language of the time...gonna have to dig out that video (sadly..only on VHS, i think) and watch it tonight.
Great lines.
and Jason, see how happy that whale is? imagine a treat 10x the size of that penguin. just sayin'.
Great lines.
and Jason, see how happy that whale is? imagine a treat 10x the size of that penguin. just sayin'.
sg1838
New member
:lol:
DEEP BLUE SIX
New member
Kat,
Star Trek 4 "The Voyage Home" and they are ALL available now on DVD.
The entire collection.
By the way, since you paint so well obviously...
Do you sketch too?
If you can sketch out something you'd like to see for your personal light saber hilt, before this weekend... Get me some sketches when we meet up and I can have it to get to work on.
I'm working on 1 right now that may be another month or 2. But once it's done, I can start yours.
On the Whale:
Very sad yes.. I'll agree that training them for entertainment can be abusive.
Especially after years of this. The animal is extremely intelligent. This "accident" was nothing of the kind. It was an individuals way of striking back because it's tired of the crap.
You would be too. If you were held captive for most of your life. Even if you don't know the difference, "instinct" will set in, once your tired of what bothers you. It probably even planned it, when opportunity came along.
However, the issue is a double edged sword. Many conservationists are even saying that though they don't all approve of the entertainment training, facilities like sea world are an essential place for study, breeding and planning for future conservation of these animals. With ticket buyers helping to "pay" for the real estate and costs, it's the best way to have a place for some of them.
Would you donate to have a facility to have them that was not public? It would be honorable. But few people would.
The truth is, there are no other places they are kept for study or breeding except public zoo/aquariums like San Diego, others and Sea world, Marine land etc.. The public helps to pay for most of this. Otherwise there would be NONE in captivity for the positive studying or breeding... Despite the negative things...
Unfortunately the "negative" stuff is what pays for the "positive" or it would not happen at all. In the very least they should limit the amount to have in captivity and "try" to have a "retirement retreat" somewhere, for those like the Orca that has killed. Age is probably a factor as well. Even humans get crankier with age! LOL
But do not put the Orca down in my opinion. We owe it to the animals to conserve and try to find a way to manage the things we have caused.
dreaminmel
New member
Disclaimer: no "tone" in my following words
I understand and respect your points on that and I think ultimately it may boil down to how far people are willing to go. I am aware that there are many studies done on these animals in the wild as well so other than the captive breeding aspect I am not aware of the real benefit that captive studies provide. To me it seems that humanity tries to play "god" on too many levels. The captive breeding aspect is what they play on with tigers and many other animals too. Personally, it disturbs me. I think we should put more effort into maintaining their natural habitats. Studying them "at home" would have to result in much more accurate findings anyways, in my opinion.
DEEP BLUE SIX
New member
For Kat:
Tell me whether you want one handed, sort of 2 or a BIg two hander.
materials involved change and more $$.
Kat, I'll show you samples and pics of ones done. You can decide if you like the work. Most people do. Many in sci-fi clubs. (501st legion) etc..
Whether your more like a Jedi or you prefer a darker side.
You can sketch exactly how you'd like it to look. I use everything from Brass, stainless,copper,steel,plastic,rubber,leather for materials... anything I can get my hands on.
LEDs are used to show activations etc.. different buttons...lights
emitters etc..
Some people have looked at different cultures here, for inspiration to make custom looks, not just copying one from the movies. (Egypt, africa, asia, Mayan, and then mixing/switching it up to "otherworldy" to find the custom look you want.
One guy had his be kind of organic looking.
Others like a dragon from another planet hilt. The body of it..
Another with "see through section" so you can see emitter area working inside.
Straight or curved hilts even double bladed.
But unique original designs is what I like to do. Not copies of movie characters ones(which have been done and well) but I find it boring to copy them completely.
I tell people to pick a character in their mind. Gamers are usually good at this.
design it after what their "expanded universe" fantasy character is like.
Where do they come from? what race/species are they? what do things look like on their planet? This could help design what you can think of for the saber hilt.
Use your imagination. That's the point.
Then get a costume if you want to. Make one and go make a fool out of yourself at a convention..LOL seriously having fun is what it is about.
Of course, it a whole other website or more than one for that matter...
Probably doesn't belong hijacking this thread.
Any ideas PM me. See you later...
Tell me whether you want one handed, sort of 2 or a BIg two hander.
materials involved change and more $$.
Kat, I'll show you samples and pics of ones done. You can decide if you like the work. Most people do. Many in sci-fi clubs. (501st legion) etc..
Whether your more like a Jedi or you prefer a darker side.
You can sketch exactly how you'd like it to look. I use everything from Brass, stainless,copper,steel,plastic,rubber,leather for materials... anything I can get my hands on.
LEDs are used to show activations etc.. different buttons...lights
emitters etc..
Some people have looked at different cultures here, for inspiration to make custom looks, not just copying one from the movies. (Egypt, africa, asia, Mayan, and then mixing/switching it up to "otherworldy" to find the custom look you want.
One guy had his be kind of organic looking.
Others like a dragon from another planet hilt. The body of it..
Another with "see through section" so you can see emitter area working inside.
Straight or curved hilts even double bladed.
But unique original designs is what I like to do. Not copies of movie characters ones(which have been done and well) but I find it boring to copy them completely.
I tell people to pick a character in their mind. Gamers are usually good at this.
design it after what their "expanded universe" fantasy character is like.
Where do they come from? what race/species are they? what do things look like on their planet? This could help design what you can think of for the saber hilt.
Use your imagination. That's the point.
Then get a costume if you want to. Make one and go make a fool out of yourself at a convention..LOL seriously having fun is what it is about.
Of course, it a whole other website or more than one for that matter...
Probably doesn't belong hijacking this thread.
Any ideas PM me. See you later...
DEEP BLUE SIX
New member
Disclaimer: no "tone" in my following words
I understand and respect your points on that and I think ultimately it may boil down to how far people are willing to go. I am aware that there are many studies done on these animals in the wild as well so other than the captive breeding aspect I am not aware of the real benefit that captive studies provide. To me it seems that humanity tries to play "god" on too many levels. The captive breeding aspect is what they play on with tigers and many other animals too. Personally, it disturbs me. I think we should put more effort into maintaining their natural habitats. Studying them "at home" would have to result in much more accurate findings anyways, in my opinion.
"It's the best place to have some of them- here in our world", for study. I should have said.
BUT- I couldn't agree with your point more. Your correct. At least to an extent. That's just what conservationists are saying. Study is done in the wild too of course and that is where the animal belongs.
The only problem with some things in the wild is that even though study is done even in their natural environment, many of these animals are still dying off and going extinct. Tigers are another good example. many species are all gone and some are in the 100s, some are in the dozens... The idea of captive zoo or entertainment(sea world) complex is maybe we can keep them alive. Find a way to save them... Some have gone too far for us to even attempt at saving the pop. for future generations. That's where the idea came from for captive breed. So, they are not all lost. 'Cause numbers of many threatened things go down every generation.
Study in the wild for some is even too late. the biggest point is studying or not, what we do in the natural world affects all living creatures. We need to be careful with what we do in the ocean as well as the wild land area environments. Our technology and practices as well as population spread is killing off a lot of things. Destroying their natural habitat.
A fact that is hard to take for me as an animal lover. But seems to be a legacy we have always struggled to balance.
superkat
Premium Member
I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't.... The pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. ~Mark Twain
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer Mitch Stacy, Associated Press Writer "“ 1 hr 42 mins ago
ORLANDO, Fla. "“ SeaWorld will restart its killer whale shows this weekend after Tilikum, the largest orca in captivity, dragged a trainer to her death in the water at the Orlando park.
SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment President Jim Atchison said Friday trainers won't get in the water with the killer whales for now until officials finish reviewing what happened to veteran trainer Dawn Brancheau, 40.
"We will make improvements and changes and we will move forward," Atchison said as killer whales swam in a tank behind him during a news conference at the Florida park, one of three SeaWorld locations. The others are in San Antonio and San Diego.
The trainer was dragged into the water Wednesday by Tilikum. The medical examiner says she likely died of traumatic injuries and drowning.
Atchison says Tilikum will remain an "active, contributing member of the team" at SeaWorld.
Atchison says whale shows will resume Saturday. He says he's not sure how long it will be before trainers are allowed to get back in the water with the animals.
Tilikum is the only killer whale in the SeaWorld chain that the park has special handling rules for, Atchison said. The 22-foot, 12,000-pound male was involved in two earlier deaths at SeaWorld and a park in British Columbia.
Atchison wouldn't speak to specific protocols or whether any had been violated, saying it's too soon to come to any conclusions.
"It's far too early to get to that point," he said. He added, "We are evaluating every policy, every procedure we have."
The issue of protocols was raised by the former head of animal training at SeaWorld, Thad Lacinak, who said earlier Friday that the rules in place when he left the park in 2008 would not have allowed Brancheau to lie down on a submerged shelf next to the whale, where the animal was able to grab her ponytail.
"She laid completely down, which is a very vulnerable position to be in with an animal like Tilikum. And apparently her ponytail drifted into the water, he just opened his mouth, sucked it in and pulled her in the water," Lacinak, who left SeaWorld in 2008 after a long career to start a consultancy, told The Associated Press.
Lacinak said he'd been told how the attack happened by other trainers who were at the scene. Based on their description, he said the rules for handling Tilikum that were in place during his tenure had either been broken or changed.
Tilikum was one of three orcas blamed for killing a trainer in 1991 at a theme park near Victoria, British Columbia. In 1999, the body of a naked man was found draped over Tilikum at SeaWorld. Officials said the man had stayed in the park after closing, apparently fell into the whale tank and died of hypothermia, but was also bitten by Tilikum.
Lacinak said Brancheau's ponytail was merely a "novelty item" to the whale, who was not trained to be in the water with people.
"It was a novel item in the water, and he grabbed hold of it, not necessarily in an aggressive way," he said.
Lacinak said the whale dragged the trainer into the water in more of a playful, investigative manner. Once the whale had her in the water, it likely became a game.
"It was more novelty, he's like, 'Hey look, you're in the water, I'm going to play with you,'" Lacinak said.
ORLANDO, Fla. "“ SeaWorld will restart its killer whale shows this weekend after Tilikum, the largest orca in captivity, dragged a trainer to her death in the water at the Orlando park.
SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment President Jim Atchison said Friday trainers won't get in the water with the killer whales for now until officials finish reviewing what happened to veteran trainer Dawn Brancheau, 40.
"We will make improvements and changes and we will move forward," Atchison said as killer whales swam in a tank behind him during a news conference at the Florida park, one of three SeaWorld locations. The others are in San Antonio and San Diego.
The trainer was dragged into the water Wednesday by Tilikum. The medical examiner says she likely died of traumatic injuries and drowning.
Atchison says Tilikum will remain an "active, contributing member of the team" at SeaWorld.
Atchison says whale shows will resume Saturday. He says he's not sure how long it will be before trainers are allowed to get back in the water with the animals.
Tilikum is the only killer whale in the SeaWorld chain that the park has special handling rules for, Atchison said. The 22-foot, 12,000-pound male was involved in two earlier deaths at SeaWorld and a park in British Columbia.
Atchison wouldn't speak to specific protocols or whether any had been violated, saying it's too soon to come to any conclusions.
"It's far too early to get to that point," he said. He added, "We are evaluating every policy, every procedure we have."
The issue of protocols was raised by the former head of animal training at SeaWorld, Thad Lacinak, who said earlier Friday that the rules in place when he left the park in 2008 would not have allowed Brancheau to lie down on a submerged shelf next to the whale, where the animal was able to grab her ponytail.
"She laid completely down, which is a very vulnerable position to be in with an animal like Tilikum. And apparently her ponytail drifted into the water, he just opened his mouth, sucked it in and pulled her in the water," Lacinak, who left SeaWorld in 2008 after a long career to start a consultancy, told The Associated Press.
Lacinak said he'd been told how the attack happened by other trainers who were at the scene. Based on their description, he said the rules for handling Tilikum that were in place during his tenure had either been broken or changed.
Tilikum was one of three orcas blamed for killing a trainer in 1991 at a theme park near Victoria, British Columbia. In 1999, the body of a naked man was found draped over Tilikum at SeaWorld. Officials said the man had stayed in the park after closing, apparently fell into the whale tank and died of hypothermia, but was also bitten by Tilikum.
Lacinak said Brancheau's ponytail was merely a "novelty item" to the whale, who was not trained to be in the water with people.
"It was a novel item in the water, and he grabbed hold of it, not necessarily in an aggressive way," he said.
Lacinak said the whale dragged the trainer into the water in more of a playful, investigative manner. Once the whale had her in the water, it likely became a game.
"It was more novelty, he's like, 'Hey look, you're in the water, I'm going to play with you,'" Lacinak said.
DEEP BLUE SIX
New member
This must have happened in other places perhaps as well.
Last time I was in Canada at Marineland-
(over a year ago)
We watched the Orca show.
Though they have shows with trainers in the water with seals and dolphins.
They do NOT get in the water there with Orcas.
They used to. But have discontinued some years back being in the water with them.
Now they just run the Orca show near water on platforms but not in the tanks with the Orcas though...
I don't know why they changed this there. When I was a kid, they got in the water with them still. Wonder if similar things happening caused them to change. I still have that last Orca show I saw not long ago, on video, and NO trainers in the water for it!
Anyone remember people being able to pet the Orcas and their tongues and get Orca kisses?? Well, at Marineland you can't anymore! Only with Belugas and dolphins. Not the Orcas anymore.
If they do this now up in Canada, it seems logical. You would think Seaworld officials would do something similar in Florida?? There must be a logical reason. Still no fault to the animal really, but Seaworld is asking for trouble I think!
Last time I was in Canada at Marineland-
(over a year ago)
We watched the Orca show.
Though they have shows with trainers in the water with seals and dolphins.
They do NOT get in the water there with Orcas.
They used to. But have discontinued some years back being in the water with them.
Now they just run the Orca show near water on platforms but not in the tanks with the Orcas though...
I don't know why they changed this there. When I was a kid, they got in the water with them still. Wonder if similar things happening caused them to change. I still have that last Orca show I saw not long ago, on video, and NO trainers in the water for it!
Anyone remember people being able to pet the Orcas and their tongues and get Orca kisses?? Well, at Marineland you can't anymore! Only with Belugas and dolphins. Not the Orcas anymore.
If they do this now up in Canada, it seems logical. You would think Seaworld officials would do something similar in Florida?? There must be a logical reason. Still no fault to the animal really, but Seaworld is asking for trouble I think!
superkat
Premium Member
first trip to Sea World when i was a little girl......my Dad made me get up there and have Shamu kiss me. Breath stunk to high heaven. All these other kids are flippin' out....he kissed me! he kissed me! I was a smart a--- then, too...I said, no...he TASTED you. Can we go to Disney now????
Conesus_Kid
Premium Member
I remember them using a giant novelty toothbrush to "brush" the Orcas teeth at Marineland when I was a kid! 
I'm very sorry for the trainer and her family.
Seaworld executives seem to be drinking too much medicated seawater. Stating they will continue to use this animal that has been involved in 3 deaths of human beings fits one definition of insanity well:" doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". They are obviously unable to manage this animal in a safe way while still profiting from it.
When a dog bites repetitively it is taken from the owner. This action is is about taking property the dog; not about justice for the animal with death to the animal as a deeply regrettable but usual outcome. Discussing animal behavior harmful to humans in terms of the animal's degree of responsibility clarifies the issues since the animal doesn't rightly or logically bear the responsibilty . It's about the owner and the owner's ability and comittment or lack of it to provide for the animal in a safe and humane way. When an owner can't manage an animal in a way that enures safety to humans wether it's a dog or an Orca, the owner should not be allowed to continue it's questionalbe husbandry,in my opinion.
As I understand it there are some sanctuaries in the wild that could be explored for Tliikum. In any case Seaworld should not be allowed to continue putting humans in serious danger from this particular killer whale while continuing to profit from exhibiting it and using it for breeding.
Seaworld executives seem to be drinking too much medicated seawater. Stating they will continue to use this animal that has been involved in 3 deaths of human beings fits one definition of insanity well:" doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". They are obviously unable to manage this animal in a safe way while still profiting from it.
When a dog bites repetitively it is taken from the owner. This action is is about taking property the dog; not about justice for the animal with death to the animal as a deeply regrettable but usual outcome. Discussing animal behavior harmful to humans in terms of the animal's degree of responsibility clarifies the issues since the animal doesn't rightly or logically bear the responsibilty . It's about the owner and the owner's ability and comittment or lack of it to provide for the animal in a safe and humane way. When an owner can't manage an animal in a way that enures safety to humans wether it's a dog or an Orca, the owner should not be allowed to continue it's questionalbe husbandry,in my opinion.
As I understand it there are some sanctuaries in the wild that could be explored for Tliikum. In any case Seaworld should not be allowed to continue putting humans in serious danger from this particular killer whale while continuing to profit from exhibiting it and using it for breeding.
