KZ system, Hybrid....Possible?

[machodik]

Dear All,

Allow me to post this thread here as I think this question and topic of mine mainly related to SPS enthusiast hobbyist.

I have made my Tank getting toward the stableness to grow SPS specially my Acros that I have put in my tank so far after almost a week is getting fine (crossing my fingers and knock on the wood).

Now, back to the main concept of this post of mine , because my Tank water and paremeters are mainly stablize by 2 reactors;

a) Reef Ocotpus Biopellet reactor ---giving straight No3 0.20 to 0.50 and Po4 at 0.03 to 0.08 ppm.
b) GEO 618 calcium reactor --- giving me a good and stable KH - 7.3 dkh, Calcium 430 PPM and Mg at 1350 ppm (I add some magnesium media on it)

my testing kit : Salifert and Hanna checker

As I think above said reactors do a good job and I hesistate to add anymore reactor like Zeovit reactor not only because of sump's space concern but also I don't. have much time to swing the handle pole daily.

but I do like the KZ colors on the corals, so my questions is ----can I use a hybrid way of kz system? meaning using my existing reacot without the zeovit reactors but adding the supplement of KZ.

If so, can any KZ specialist here teach me, what kind of supplement I needed and how to dose it for a 420 liters volume system? I just want to color up my sps and also maintain a good growth. although I understand KZ system spend much more than the conventional way, so I do't. opted to have the full range of so many additives but only couple of the basic important one that will help me achieved color and growth of my corals.

thanks so much in advnace and I always learn a lot and without RC members untiring help, I don't. think I will reached to this point of finally stabilizing my Tank.

cheers,


MD

 

[machodik]

Any good advises ? Thanks

 

[Eastone]

I've run a system like this, with some great results.
I'm not 100% sure on doses, because I run a small tank, so it may be worthwhile posting for advice on the ZEO forum as well.

You may want to check your NO3 and PO4 levels, most conventional biopellets will allow for rapid breakdown of NO3, and result in a nitrogen limited system wherein PO4 cannot be broken down, this can be mitigated by NO3 dosing, dosing of ZEOStart, which contains NO3 as well as a carbon source or the use of AIO Biopellets which use a matrix of carbon polymers and GFO.

Further, I'd very much encourage a steady dosing plan for bacteria, the large amounts of bacterial growth can result in monocoltures really fast which is good to avoid.

As a basic, I'd start with
ZEOBak
ZEOStart
Coral Vitaliser
Sponge power

and perhaps Pohl's Xtra. If you don't dose any other trace elements I'd advise looking into K- B-balance and some of the smaller trace supplements they offer. The key with this is to start slowly with half-suggested doses and allow ample time for effects to show on your corals.

Best of luck

 

[machodik]

Hi Eastone ,

Thanks for responding and give good advises. I thought nobody understood my posting thus it took quite a long while no one reply and I almost give up this thread. Anyway , I hope more and more RC members will share their ideas about this subject I posted here.

I have been advise by some friends to removed my BP reactors , I use Ecobak pellets. I can not grown acros in my Tank inspite of my effort to have a very stable water parameters .

I am afraid if I remove my BP reactor for sure my No3 and Po4 will shot skyrocketing high as I used to be before since my fish before and after BP are still that much amount and they grow larger and I can not afford to see they starving daily.

I don't know much about Zeovit reactor and I feel it will be too inconvenient for me to rotate the handle every day which is not possible in the reality to me as I travel very often. I don't know what is the concept of this reactor why It is not like BP reactor that let the flow running thru? What is the concept to move or rotate those stones ?

I wish to try deeply with KZ if I can use my existing BP reactor plus other supplement of those blue bottles such as those you mentioned herewith , this is just to prove my tank is not an acros graveyard.

Cheers,


MD

 

[Eastone]

The reason for moving the Zeovit stones is to shear off bacterial film, and allow it to be removed via skimming. It's the reason a biopellet reactor requires so much flow and agitation, to prevent dead spots of flow between stones and to facilitate removal of the bacteria.

What happens to your acros when you put them in? If you run biopellets already, you may have an issue where your PO4 is high but your NO3 is limiting, or that both NO3 and PO4 could be low and you need to dose. I'd try to dose ZeoBAK to bring your bacterial population into balance, and then dose Amino Acids and Coral Vitaliser regularly when adding an acro frag to test, but I'd need further information.

I have run biopellets while using the KZ system for around a year now. I've recently switched to Aquaforest purely because their system components are cheaper and there is more literature available about what elements the supplements contain - this makes it easier to combine with other brands and be sure of no overdose risk. Here is a link to my old tank

I had tried a similar pellet to the EcoBak pellets, however I had problems with my PO4 despite dosing KNO3, and I switched to All In One Biopellets. These are similar but brown and are a composite of the ecobak type pellet with GFO to bind phosphate and allow for easier consumption by bacteria.

What do you do with regards to maintaining CAL and KH?

edit:

I have read some of your posts with photos of your current reef, and I think the issue you're having is to do with your PO4, but I don't know if it's too high or too low, can you get me some test results?

 

[machodik]

KZ system, Hybrid....Possible?

When I first buy the acros it stay good for a week and the. Start to get browning .

My Po4 stay stable between 0.03-0.08 ppm and my No3 at less than 0.20 ppm I used Salifert test kits for No3 and Hanna checker for Po4.

My Geo 618 take a good control of my KH , calcium and Mg. at 7.3 dkh, 430 ppm and 1400 ppm respectively .

I wonder if I can dose Zeo BAK with the zeolite or Zeovit reactor ? I hesitate to buy another reactor as my sump space are too limited and have so much reactors in this tank. If I have to use a reactor for Zeovit , I may convert my JNS NR1 reactor but it's different concept as to the Zeovit reactor it was use before as nitrate reactor but I can add a strong power head directing downward straight against zeolites stones and have an timer to on and off once in a day to blow those so called Mulim out . Will this be okay?

Cheers,

MD

 

[Eastone]

You can dose it without the reactor or zeolite if that's what you're asking. Zeolite is just a substrate with area for the bacteria to grow, like Siphorax. Your parameters seem really good, I think you may just need to start feeding the corals with amino acids. I would suggest dosing Bak, Pohl's Xtra and Coral Vitaliser, as well as some sort of amino acid supplement, perhaps Salifert Coralline Amino Acids and see.

The browning is possibly from lack of light, but the coral dying from the base up seems to be from starvation.

 

[machodik]

KZ system, Hybrid....Possible?

Thanks Eastone,

I dose amino acid once a week about 5 ml of Red Sea Energy B.

As you mentioned on those supplement I need to dose , I wonder if ZeoBak is means the bacteria like bio digest vials provide? If so , without zeolites and Zeovit reactor, then these bacteria will be growing on the live rocks or perhaps on the biopellets?

Sorry for my ignorant question as I am just starting to learn KZ system

By the way , my lights comprise of 2 x A360We Kessil and 4 ATI T5 bulbs (2 x coral plus + 2 x actinic).

Cheers,

MD

 

[toothman]

To try to put it in a nut shell, zeovit runs on the redfield ratio principle. Nitrate is necessary to added to remove phosphate, bio pellets alone will reduce nitrate but the system will become nitrate limited and slow to remove phosphate down to undetectable levels. I do not know of any other additive other than zeostart that has nitrate in it, there may be others, If you want to run bio pellets and reduce phosphate to zeo system levels you need to add sodium or potassium nitrate, never tried it but it seems to make sense. This is where the additional zeo additives become necessary because the phosphate will drop to .02 or lower at that level the zoos in acros will not thrive. Then you need to add coral vitalizer a carbohydrate and phol's extra a coral darkener, so your corals will not starve.

Is is worth all the dosing when you can keep your acros happy with nitrate 2-5 and phosphate .03-.06 with much easier methods. Why not look at fauna marin supplements, ultra min s is the carbon source, and fauna organics (two things to add to the tank). Then just add the 3 bottle trace elements to your 2 part dosing. Works great and you can be away with out much worry that your acros have enough coral vitalizer.

Must say however zeo sponge power in any acro tank will help.

 

[machodik]

Thanks tooth man ,

My no3 steadily at 0.2 while Po4 at 0.03-0.08 using Salifert and Hana checker respectively .

So I think my No3 is too low? Should I turn off my Biopellet reactor ?

I change water regularly using my auto water change system.

If zeos supplement help I would love to add right away those additives you mentioned .

Cheers,

MD

 

[toothman]

The big thing biopellets are missing is nitrate which when added in small quantity will further reduce phosphate. As your phosphate and nitrate get really low your acros will not have enough zoos to keep up with carbohydrate demand of your acros and they will starve. Zeovit makes 2 additives that specifically address this issue for ultra low nutrient tanks, coral vitalizer, phol's extra, when added will boost color up and feed your corals. Taking the place of nitrate and phos in water. I would not turn off pellet reactor, it will go anaerobic and be useless, or toxic. It would be interesting to see how sodium nitrate added would compliment your system. I would start by adding 1/8 spoon daily and test, keep nitrate under 5 ppm. Or you could take your pellet reactor off and start daily dosing of zeostart. But that may be too much effort on your part.

Make sure your gravel is clean, gravel wash etc. carbon dosing does not work well with a lot of detritus in gravel.
I have added sodium nitrate with no ill effects, just boosts nitrate
check potassium also.

 

[machodik]

Thanks Toothman again for your kind advises.

Got it , so dosing coral Vitalizer and Phol's xtra will do the job.

I will also start looking for sodium nitrate , by the way the potassium you mentioned is in form of potassium nitrate too or just simply potassium ? I have seen on you tube someone dose potassium , I wonder if this is the same important as the usual 3 elements we testing calcium magnesium and alkalinity ? Testing potassium also best using Salifert test kits?

Cheers,

MD

 

[toothman]

Thanks Toothman again for your kind advises.

Got it , so dosing coral Vitalizer and Phol's xtra will do the job.

I will also start looking for sodium nitrate , by the way the potassium you mentioned is in form of potassium nitrate too or just simply potassium ? I have seen on you tube someone dose potassium , I wonder if this is the same important as the usual 3 elements we testing calcium magnesium and alkalinity ? Testing potassium also best using Salifert test kits?

Cheers,

MD

I does not really mater, if you potassium nitrate, it will supplement nitrate. You do need by far less potassium than nitrate. If you get potassium chloride and sodium nitrate you can does them independently with out affecting the levels of each. Also depends what your country's regulations are potassium nitrate can be explosive. Fresh water aquariums have used potassium nitrate as a supplement for pant tanks for decades.

 

[machodik]

Thanks Toothman,

I will go for Zeovit system but right now I am trying to figure out how to put the Zeovit reactor as my sump spaces is impossible to add a new reactor and beside I didn't see any external Zeovit reactor . I wonder why all Zeovit reactor are internal and has to be within the sumps? Any particular reason for that?

Cheers,

MD

 

[toothman]

all I have seen are internal, I most likely is easier since you have to open it each month and change media. Vortec makes a nice reasonable reactor. I would also just switch to zeo, starting with zeostart as your carbon source, just makes more sense.

 

[machodik]

I ordered my KZ regiment ; Zeobak , zeo start 3 , sponge power and zeolites . Now I still trying to figure out how I can squeeze the Zeovit reactor , I wonder BM Zeovit reactor is good or not ? But I think I need to find first where it is going to be located in the sump as no more spaces

 

[machodik]

Begin of KZ system in my tank

Cheers ,

MD

 

[toothman]

exciting.

Start with 1/2 dose of start daily. So 1/4 dose in morning and 1/4 dose at night. For about a month. do a good gravel wash.

use sponge each day it really increases pe.

you should not use aminos is will increase cyano unless your tank is really nutrient poor.

After your acros get a bit light, start adding phol's extra and coral vitalizer, and b balance or just start adding and see how they do.
You can also get better results with flatworm stop mixed with coral booster.

I would not buy any of the mg, potassium, iron, fluoride or other trace elements, you can just use any supplement for that. Unless you just want to have more blue bottles.

Pm how you are doing.

 

[machodik]

KZ system, Hybrid....Possible?

Thanks toothman, will definitely do the dosing when I back to Taiwan next weekend , I keep those regimen first in my cabinet as I want to start it with continuously consistent dosing with out fluctuation . I also try to figure out how I will be doing my DIY on zeovit reactor from my old Nr-1 nitrate reactor . As I don't want to buy any new reactor since I already got so much stocks in my cabinet. Hope KZ systems will be the last and the best for my reefing dream

Will post my DIY questions at the said particular forum then .

Cheers,


MD

 

[toothman]

you do not really need a lid on a zeolite reactor, the water can even overflow out the top. It can be a simple as a chamber with a inside chamber with perforated bottom and a pvc stick in the middle. The stick would have a t handle so you can shake it up and down. Or just make it simple and get a vertex reactor, for $200