LaCl Reactor
- Thread starter insomniac2k2
- Start date
insomniac2k2
Active member
Cant get much more pure than lab grade I suppose. But if there are no supporting documents showing it's purity, you will just have to take them for their word.
MrineLfRlz
Active member
What would be the dilution ratio for a 250g system?
Also i have the hanna HI713 colorimeter is the ulr one alot more accurate?
Also what would be the conversion to ppm for the ulr
slief
RC Sponsor
The ULR is much more accurate for our target range. It's the only Po4 meter from Hanna that is designated as a Marine checker.
I replied to your PM.
This thread below is worth reading in it's entirety. LaCl can be dangerous to your tanks inhabitants and it should be used with care and knowledge. Before I even considered using LaCl, I did my due dillegenence and read this LaCl thread in it's entirety and I strongly suggest you do the same. That way you go into it as educated as possible should you decide to use this stuff.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1474839&highlight=lanthanum
karimwassef
Active member
There are direct and indirect dangers to LaCl.
The rapid reduction of phosphate sounds like a good thing, but in my case it caused a massive explosion of dinos as my algae died overnight. This resulted in months of extensive fixes and battles to address a more severe issue than the original algae.
The fine dust also impacted my Zebrasoma tangs who began breathing very heavily. I don't have a source for the biological reason, but the suspicion is that their gill structure is sensitive to this dust, even in low concentrations.
There are public aquariums who do use LaCl successfully, but they usually have significant feeding requirements. It's an effective tool, but please be careful and make very small changes if you do decide to try.
The rapid reduction of phosphate sounds like a good thing, but in my case it caused a massive explosion of dinos as my algae died overnight. This resulted in months of extensive fixes and battles to address a more severe issue than the original algae.
The fine dust also impacted my Zebrasoma tangs who began breathing very heavily. I don't have a source for the biological reason, but the suspicion is that their gill structure is sensitive to this dust, even in low concentrations.
There are public aquariums who do use LaCl successfully, but they usually have significant feeding requirements. It's an effective tool, but please be careful and make very small changes if you do decide to try.
slief
RC Sponsor
For the reasons you mentioned, it's CRITICAL to use 5 or 10 micron socks to dose the diluted LaCl mixture into. The precipitate can kill tangs as well as other fish and you are correct in your assumption as the precipitate impacts their gills.
I will not dose LaCl without the socks. 10 micron or smaller socks are an absolute must. If there is any signs of clouding, you are doing it wrong and harming your fish and the use of 10 micron or finer socks should prevent this. When I dose, I monitor the tank continually. I use a diluted solution that is very well calculated for my system volume and use an IV bag to dose it at a rate of 1 drop per second. I mix my LaCl dose into 1 liter of RODI water which goes into the IV bag. I only drop .03-.04ppm per session and space dosing session out every other day to get to my target level. It usually takes me 2 or 3 sessions over the course of 4 or 6 days to hit my target. My dosing is done one drop of my solution per second over the course of several hours insuring that the .03-.04 drop in Po4 is done VERY slowly during which time I watch the tank closely for any signs of clouding (which there never is because of my process). I also monitor my filter socks to make sure they don't back up as that would release precipitate into the water column. I keep spare socks on hand to swap at moments notice should the start backing up. The end result is that I never have an issue with clouding or anything in my tank and have been using the same process for years.
I only use LaCl once every several months. While I do use GFO, it only slows the Po4 increase down in my tank due to my feeding habits. I generally target a Po4 level of .06ppm. When I start to notice increased algae growth in my refgugiums as well as on my glass I know it's time to test and dose. That is usually when my Po4 hits around .12ppm. I have seen it much higher than that but never have algae issues in my main display. It's always relegated to my display refugium or my below tank fuge but those are my tell tale signs for when my levels are elevated and LaCl has proven very useful and effective for me. As you have learned and as I noted, it's something that must be used carefully as it can be harmful to the tanks inhabitants. It's not something I recommend for people use unless they do their own homework.
Last edited:
karimwassef
Active member
I fed mine directly into the intake hose of my massive skimmer. The scrubbing process in my skimmer is quite aggressive, and the dust would have to travel 12' against the flow to exit. In the end, while none of my fish suffered and I got my phosphate down very quickly... it was still a disaster with the death of all normal algae and the explosion of the dino plague.
So - even if you're successful, you can still fail by going into unnaturally low levels of phosphate too fast...
So - even if you're successful, you can still fail by going into unnaturally low levels of phosphate too fast...
slief
RC Sponsor
I agree 100%. This is one reason why I drop my levels very methodically and slowly. I know exactly how much I will drop my Po4 with each dose. Having an accurate tool for measuring Po4 is an absolute must. Especially when you get down to .10 or below. This is where the HI736 comes into play. Interestingly, at levels about .15, the HI713 is a bit more accurate but below .10 which is where we normally target, the HI736 is pretty critical in my opinion. Lastly and most importantly, doing your homework is a must. A miscalculation in the LaCl dose can drop it to fast and or too far. As I said above, LaCl is not something I would normally recommend. In large part because people don't do enough homework and as you have noted, there are risks in using it improperly or over dosing. Using GFO is most cases can be very effective and carries much less risk for the inexperienced hobbyist.
karimwassef
Active member
Where is has the greatest use is large exhibits (thousands to millions of gallons), where large sources of waste (outside pools or tanks with leaves, insects falling in, ...) with large bioloads and animal waste (mammal, large fish, marine birds). In those cases, the volume of water to be treated is so massive that the impact of LaCl is moderated.
Home reef use can be like using dynamite to get rid of a pest rodent problem... It'll work... But...
Home reef use can be like using dynamite to get rid of a pest rodent problem... It'll work... But...
jrp1588
New member
With the right amount, and an effective means to contain the explosion, I'm sure a proper mouse trap could be designed around dynamite. haha
karimwassef
Active member
Agreed.. Just be sure your math is right!!
insomniac2k2
Active member
Agreed. Just get your math right. No need to be in a rush when using this stuff. It will work amazingly fast.
insomniac2k2
Active member
Since there is some discussion in this thread, maybe I should post what my current configuration is.
I still use the dosing mixture that I posted in the OP. Though, I have changed my dose rate to be about double. If anyone ever does something similar to how I do it, I would recommend that you start a very low minimum and then go higher very slowly.
One thing that I did change was my "reaction chambers". I now just run 2 identical reaction chambers with filter floss. The first one has about half as much floss , due to the fact that It clogs much faster. The second chamber is packed much tighter, in order to catch anything that is free floating that leaves the first chamber. I run my flow rate very slow. Probably about 20GPH. The exiting effluent goes directly into a skimmer, which then enters a Rollermat filter.
That's my present mouse trap at least...
I still use the dosing mixture that I posted in the OP. Though, I have changed my dose rate to be about double. If anyone ever does something similar to how I do it, I would recommend that you start a very low minimum and then go higher very slowly.
One thing that I did change was my "reaction chambers". I now just run 2 identical reaction chambers with filter floss. The first one has about half as much floss , due to the fact that It clogs much faster. The second chamber is packed much tighter, in order to catch anything that is free floating that leaves the first chamber. I run my flow rate very slow. Probably about 20GPH. The exiting effluent goes directly into a skimmer, which then enters a Rollermat filter.
That's my present mouse trap at least...
insomniac2k2
Active member
Yes, that's where I have had the best results so far. In my case, If i have too much in the first chamber, it clogs too early because of all the excess floating junk in my water. The looser floss enables me to catch most that stuff in the first chamber and avoid clogging so fast.
insomniac2k2
Active member
Just make sure to start slow. The whole point of this type of reactor is to consistently pull out small amounts of phosphates.
This is unless you intend on using this reactor as a short term/high phosphate reduction as other have done with LaCl3. This would be very comparable to the filter sock drip method with a bit more control IMO.
In any case, good luck and let us know your results!
This is unless you intend on using this reactor as a short term/high phosphate reduction as other have done with LaCl3. This would be very comparable to the filter sock drip method with a bit more control IMO.
In any case, good luck and let us know your results!
This is kind of a silly question, but the 5 micron filter socks tend to get clogged very quickly since they trap just about everything. Given such fine pores, would normal bleach soak/wash be sufficient to clean them for re-use, or will the filter socks need to be thrown and replaced every time they clog up?
slief
RC Sponsor
Because the socks that are used for LaCl get plugged up with calcium precipitate, I use vinegar to wash them instead of the bleach I use to wash my 200 micron socks. The vinegar will break the calcium down which I don't think the bleach does as well.
