Landlords Log - Breeding Tomato Clowns

[rkelman]

Such immediate die off would indicate either physical damage or poor egg quality usually due to brood stock diet. The extra transfer into the 1 gallon couldn't have helped matters any. I used a bowl to catch mine so I can't be sure on the siphon. I would think that would be quite a ride. I wonder how much the temperature fluctuated from the time you siphoned them / transferred / took pics then put them in the larvae tank. How overpowered is the heater? You may be frying them. Look for physical traps as well. Anything can trap these guys. airstone / heater etc. Make sure you have as little physical contact between the equipment and the tank. I usually position my airstone so it flows over the heater to keep the larvae from getting fried.

 

[landlord]

Well Day 1 yesterday seemed to be mainly a day of siphoning out dead fry.

Here is what I started with...

As you can see I had plenty of meterial to work with on this first go around :lol:

In any case today is a new day.

rkelman - The whole transfer from siphoning out the fry from the DT to actually getting them into the larvae tank took probably 60 - 75 minutes. As far as the heater goes it was the samllest the LFS had. It's one of those Hydor Theo (50 or 100 watt) not sure at the moment. In either case it would be more suited to a 15 or 20 gallon tank. It has an adjustable dial thing to set the temp but the tank just seems to warm to the touch. I'll be picking up a thermometer along with some wreath food for the DT today at the LFS so maybe that will shed some light on any temparature issues. As far as equipment positioning goes I do indeed have the airstone directly under the heater for the very purpose you described. I wish I had a magic answer for this die off. Next time I'll be sure to watch water params, heat, salinity, a bit more carefully.

heap - I don't know I may try blacking out the sides. The tanks location does tend to reflect the ambient light of the room onto the bottom pane of glass.


On another note this morning there seemed to be 20 - 30 fry left, that's a guess since counting them seems pointless at this stage. Those left were actively swimming around the tank and I did note some of the thrusting behavior described as feeding in other threads. So there is still hope to get something out of this batch other than an education

I have also placed a piece of ceramic tile into, or nearby, the nest site. If things go as they did before I should get a new nest of eggs tonight. The tile piece isn't the biggest (4in x 4in) but then again neither is the space I had to place it. I am hoping I can simply block or hinder the female from laying in the normal location (a cave) and get her to accept the tile. That should make the process a bit more streamlined. during the next hatch.

 

[landlord]

Been browsing MOFIB today. There are some pretty "heady" folks over there. Lots info. Slightly advanced for me that's for sure.

Kurt

 

[landlord]

Can someone shed some light on the need or lack of need for a light source above the larval rearing tank. I'm not getting it. Does it somehow "hypnotize" ,for lack of a better word, the larvae into staying where they need to be in the tank. How does the blackening of the sides play into this?

Any thoughts?

Many thanks --Kurt

 

[agsansoo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14737880#post14737880 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by landlord
Been browsing MOFIB today. There are some pretty "heady" folks over there. Lots info. Slightly advanced for me that's for sure.

Kurt

Yeah, they were not the friendliest people over their. I tried to get the moderates to erase my thread. They never did, and I stopped posting over there. People here on RC's breeding forum much nicer !

 

[landlord]

agreed!

 

[rkelman]

I prefer a light over my larvae tanks. Like I said before I notice no difference by blacking out the sides of the tank.

I've always found the folks at MOFIB to be very helpful and nice.

 

[landlord]

rkelman - Is your light on a timer or schedule, I am guessing that it does not adversly effect your fry, headstanding, swarming the top, etc


Got through Day 2 with minimal deaths. The ammonia in the larvae tank was making the ammonia badge switch to the next color up so I changed out 1/4 of the water for new ASW. I think I may have added the water to quickly, I lost another 2 or 3 of the fry. I believe that I may have 20 left, but that could be high they are difficult to count.

When should I add the sponge filter to the larval tank?

Or is it something that I should simply use in the grow out tank if I can get these guys through meta. The water changes are cubersome to say the least. They wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't so paranoid about straining out the rots. It is simply labor intensive to say the least.

As far as rots go I think these guys are out pacing the fry in the tank. I guess that is a good thing???? Feeding and determining how much to feed the rots is still elusive to me. I think I am going through rotifer diet waaaaay to quickly. I mean I am putting about 16 drops (twice a day) into 3 3 gallon cultures as well as the fry tank. I figured I would go through rotifers pretty quickly but alas I have not had to add any to the tank becuase of how fast they seem to multiply in there. Or maybe the fry aren't eating, who knows, it's really hard to tell if they are. I guess if they weren't eating by now they would be dead, right? I may scale back rotifer production for the next go around, and switch over to smaller clear containers. I cannot simply tell using buckets how much crud is building up and they are unsightly in the living room :lol: (says the wife).

In any case, like clockwork, the female laid another giant egg mass, (batch III), yesterday, which is good for me since that means I'll get a hatch on a Friday night and won't be a trainwreck at work the next morning. I tried the tile but it only seemed to irritate the clowns. In their effort to move it out of their breeding cave they both got a scratched up and I simply said, screw it! Pulled it out and within 10 minutes she had completely laid all her eggs. I am going to look into getting, or fabricating, a larvae snagger.

Trying to find an online store with the CPR snagger, anyone????

Thanks again for your assistance

--landlord

 

[rkelman]

Yes I run a regular lighting schedule. 6:30am to 9:00pm mostly for my convenience rather than theirs.

Drip your water changes at this point. About 2 drops a second is max.

I add the sponge filter after meta. Or about 5-7 days in my case.

I use Amquel instead of water changes for the first week. Until the sponge filter takes over and lowers the ammonia.

I feed my Rotifers twice. That should save you some Roti Diet. I wouldn't scale back yet. If you have alot of fry you'll need more Rots don't forget. Yes they are eating. You should be able to see them striking at the Rots..

Those CPR snaggers are expensive. I don't know how good they work. I assume they work good as CPR makes pretty good stuff generally.

 

[landlord]

rkelman - Great Advice, it's like I was reading your mind prior to reading your post. After work yesterday, I went to the LFS and purchased some Amquel. Worked good, the Ammonia badge slowly crept back toward the "safe zone".

WOW! What a difference a little light makes. The fry were buzzing and swarming like bees. The way they were eating was almost like a school of herring swimming with open mouths scooping up rotifers. As a side bonus, I can now see the little fellas I'm simpy using a 39w Actinic PC I had lying around.

I will be holding off on the sponge filter for a bit longer. I have been reading around and I am guessing that these guys will begin meta around day 7 - 10??? Just a guess I am not really sure yet what to be looking for but I'm pretty sure I'll know it when I see it

On another note I purchased a thermometer as well. As I suspected the heater is overpowering the tank. I had it dialed to 79 and the tank was at 82. I have made the adjustments and am now at 78.


Well regarding Day 3. No losses, very pleased about that. These guys are getting big quickly. The are actively swimming around under the new light. I believe that they are happier under lights, at least the behavior I am witnessing leads me to believe this. More hunting, no more laying around the bottom or corners, I dunno how else to describe it. With the new lights I am guess-timating that I have about 25-35 fry. All bellies are a metallic silver color. I believe this is from the rotifers.

With today being day 4, I think I am going to try and supplement their diet with a small pinch of Oto A. We shall see if they take it.

Thanks Again

--Kurt


SIDE NOTE - Anyone who is able to capture a picture of 3 day old fry should be given a trophy. I tried for hours and couldn't get a shot! :lol:

 

[rkelman]

I don't even worry when the badge is at the first stage of ammonia.. It doesn't bother the fry any.

I'm not sure when Tomatos go through meta. My best description would be watch for a headband and they go from the fast flicking tails to waggy bums (as my daughter puts it)

Ah your temp was high. 82 is a bit much for Tomatos.

Silver bellies is a good thing!

Be carefull with the Oto at this point. You don't want to start polluting the tank too soon. A small pinch won't hurt though.

 

[landlord]

Well I am now going on the 7th day for these guys. They pretty much just keep on growing. No losses over the weekend. I went out an got another tank to transport them into on Thursday so I can be ready for the next hatch out come Friday. I am still only feeding rotifers and am not really sure when to start them on Oto A. They are now very dark in color on their backsides, much more noticeable in the tank now.

--landlord

Thanks Again

 

[rkelman]

Great success landlord. I wouldn't move them to another tank just yet. I'd wait until they are at least 4 weeks. (I moved a batch yesterday that were younger and lost 6 of them because of it) I had no choice but generally I would never move them before 4 weeks. Just use the new tank for the next batch. I would start them on Oto A once they are through Meta. (When they start looking like clowns) You'll notice when they start getting waggy tails

 

[agsansoo]

Great news landlord. Remember it's OK to take photos of their progress too !

 

[landlord]

Good advice rkelman.

BTW - I GOT STRIPES TODAY!!!!!

My wife keeps making those coo-ing sounds the same sounds she makes around babies :lol:

I now have millions and millions of rotifers. They are just as addictive to breed as the darn clowns.

Wife is trying to get pictures of the babies for me to post so stay tuned

--landlord

 

[landlord]

Agsansoo - I predicted your thoughts :lol:

I'll get some pics tonight, promise

 

[landlord]

Here is my only day 2 shot, it's crummy

Here are some day 3 closeups

Try and get some Day 7 pics tonight

Kurt

 

[rkelman]

If you have stripes you should be ok to start some Oto A slowly.

 

[landlord]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14773736#post14773736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rkelman
If you have stripes you should be ok to start some Oto A slowly.

I gave them a pinch but it seemed to get lost in a cloud of rotifers, I didn't see it get eaten. The Oto A is so fine it just floats.

 

[rkelman]

That's ok. I've seen them take the oto over Rotifers. The Oto does sink eventually. If you have a ton of Rotifers still I'd either thin them out or stop adding if you are.