Large LED Build Design Question

[addonnis242]

Ok, so after reading reading just about every LED build page I could find I still have questions about my design. Most of the builds are typically less than 100 LEDs so no potential harmonics etc. issues. I am hoping I have designed this correctly as I'd like to start ordering parts.

My build is for a 72"x24"x24" 215 gal. my plan is for 2x 30"x15" heatsinks and 168 LEDs.

Parts as follows:

84 Cree XRE RB
84 Cree XRE CW Q5
2 Meanwell SP-320-24
28 750MA Dimmable Buckpucks

The pic shows how I intend to set this up; please take a look and let me know if I have left something out or any issues I may face.

Also I'm ditching my AC III and going to an AC Apex to control the arrays. I do have a question regarding this also; can the Apex actually control this many Buckpucks and how would I need to wire it?

 

[kcress]

I didn't look it up but that MW is just a DC power supply correct? Not a LED driver..

Your plan will work, but I sure wouldn't do it that way. You are going to end up with one color - PERIOD. What happens when you don't like the color temperature you end up with?

I would do what you are but wire the LEDs to put just blues and just whites on their own BPs. Then you can alter the color with the turn of a knob.

Otherwise you have to "know" you like the color your setup is going to provide and like it.

 

[addonnis242]

Kcress thanks for chiming in I was hoping you would. I'm sorry the diagram isn't done very well, there will be two of these the Meanwell is just a dc power supply. There will be two of them one driving the whites and one driving the blues. It's more just a generalization than a diagram I guess. Was just wondering if the wiring will work and how I would wire them to the Apex being that there are 28 Buckpucks. Thanks again for chiming in.

 

[kcress]

I'm not sure on the Apex.

That is a LOT of BPs.. Can you get that MW supply in a 32V version? If you can, then you can avoid buying 1/3 of those BPs.

That wiring will work but you shouldn't draw it some 'general way'! Show the wire paths zigzagging to the appropriate LEDs. Use the drawing as a tool to help you check AND build your lights.

 

[Soundwave]

I would, honestly, recommend the XP-G and XP-E LEDs from CREE. I just used 12 of each to build a light for my aquapod. They are brighter than the XR-E models at the same current. I am amazed.

Also, I agree with using dimmable pucks. I like that freedom.

 

[addonnis242]

Kcress I could not find that power supply in a 32v model, there are 36v & 48v models available. Could you please explain how I would wire it up if I were able to find a 32v pfc power supply. I'm not all that electrically inclined but given an example in most cases I can understand and figure it out. Also you are absolutely correct on the diagram, I will redraw it ASAP. Thanks for all the help so far.

Soundwave is there a noticeable difference between XREs and XPGs?

 

[addonnis242]

I changed up the diagram as best I could. I hope its better than before. I am still interested in eliminating some of the Buckpucks as Kcress suggested, I'm just not sure how that would be done. I also need to figure out how I'm going to control these once they are built either using the AC Apex or by some other means I really don't want to have to dim these things manually. Any way here's the improved drawing.

 

[Soundwave]

The newer models put out 139 lumens at 350mA where the XR-E sits at 107. They are very bright. Can I ask why you are choosing 750mA pucks? I would go with a full 1000mA. Granted, you will be pulling almost 14 amps. I would get two of the power supplies, as well. One white, one blue.

 

[addonnis242]

Soundwave I originally wanted to go with the 1000MA Buckpucks and may still do so. I'm still not sure of everything that goes into a build this size. Regarding the power supplies there will be two one for white and one for blue. If I do end up using all 28 Buckpucks do you know how I would go about controlling them with the AC Apex? Thanks for all your input so far as well, I'm just trying to nail down this design before I start buying components.

 

[addonnis242]

Diagram revised again.

 

[kcress]

This drawing looks good!
I still have no clue of what an Apex is.. Got a link to "AC Apex".

 

[chimmike]

I see someone suggested the 32v power supply and said you'd be able to use far less buckpucks. What's the reasoning behind this? The buckpucks can handle more LED's than with the 32v supply?

 

[addonnis242]

I'm glad this drawing is better sorry for the confusion with the original drawing earlier. The "AC Apex" I referred to is the Aquacontroller Apex model, I currently have an AC III but it doesn't have 0-10v capability I believe. I've attached the link below hopefully it will work. I really don't want to have to control this manually, if the Apex won't work can you think of another way I could control 28 Buckpucks?

http://www.neptunesys.com/~clp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=40

 

[addonnis242]

I'm trying to figure that out as well. Hopefully Kcress will elaborate on that because I would surely like to use fewer Buckpucks if possible.

 

[kcress]

You can put a BP in a circuit up to 32Vdc. The BP requires a "head voltage" of 2.5V.

32V - 2.5V = 29.5V

29.5V / 3.5VperLED = 8 LEDs per BP@32V

As for your Apex. I don't see a data sheet, just sales blather, so I can't give an answer there.

Each buck puck's dimmer input requires up to 5 milliamps 0-5Vdc to control the dimming. So if you had 10BPs you'd need up to 50mA of 0-5V for controlling them. Does the Apex have that? It's a secret to me..

You would want 4 of these outputs so you could feed the white BPs for both fixtures and the blue BPs.

 

[addonnis242]

Kcress I see what you mean about the Apex page I linked to. The only info I found there is the standard:

"4 Integrated Variable Speed Ports
0 to 10V output interface

Can directly control up to 4 Tunze stream pumps (like AquaSurf)

Can dim ballasts with 0 to 10V interfaces (life some T5 ballasts)"

This states there are 4 ports though there is nothing I can find online that matches the specs you stated I would need to make it work. I guess I need to email Neptune Systems and ask CS if each port would support the specs you provided.

I have another question regarding using a 32v power supply; are there any drawbacks or losses that may come from running the LEDs this way or does everything stay pretty much the same?

Thanks again for helping out with this, I apologize for all the questions but my electronics experience is minimal at best.

 

[laverda]

I'm glad this drawing is better sorry for the confusion with the original drawing earlier. The "AC Apex" I referred to is the Aquacontroller Apex model, I currently have an AC III but it doesn't have 0-10v capability I believe. I've attached the link below hopefully it will work. I really don't want to have to control this manually, if the Apex won't work can you think of another way I could control 28 Buckpucks?

http://www.neptunesys.com/~clp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=40

The AC3 has 0-10 volt capability via the Aquasurf module.

 

[addonnis242]

Kcress, assuming the AC Apex will put out 35mA of 0-5vdc @ 4 how would I wire it up? Would I just group all 7 of the control leads from the Buckpucks directly to one of the leads from the Apex? Also what if one if the Buckpucks goes bad, will having the 35mA now going to only 6 Buckpucks instead of 7 be an issue?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

You can put a BP in a circuit up to 32Vdc. The BP requires a "head voltage" of 2.5V.

32V - 2.5V = 29.5V

29.5V / 3.5VperLED = 8 LEDs per BP@32V

That's true by the numbers (i.e. the 32v max input voltage listed on the buckpuck datasheet), but the datasheet also mentions "up to 6 HP LEDs" or some wording like that. People have tried them with 8 LEDs on 32v supplies, and had mixed results - though the "sample size" (of people who have tried that) is really low, so maybe not trustworthy. Hence, the common rule of thumb that you drive 6 HP LEDs and use a 24v supply.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Kcress, assuming the AC Apex will put out 35mA of 0-5vdc @ 4 how would I wire it up? Would I just group all 7 of the control leads from the Buckpucks directly to one of the leads from the Apex? Also what if one if the Buckpucks goes bad, will having the 35mA now going to only 6 Buckpucks instead of 7 be an issue?

The current rating on the Apex is a maximum, not a "default." It'll provide up to 35mA. With no room for error, that gives you 7 buckpucks per Apex channel (allowing for 5mA per buckpuck).

So, figure out which buckpucks you want controlled together, and wire them all in parallel to one channel of the Apex, up to 7 buckpucks per channel. No worries if one buckpuck dies.