Learning/rebuilding from my epic fail
- Thread starter reefmutt
- Start date
reefmutt
Active member
Holy Crap Matt!!!
The tank is full and looks awesome, good to stop in on the sps forum and see that things are doing so great
Hey Guys! Thank you very much for all the very kind words!
It's always great to get such posistive feedback but I am still frustrated by random browning, and rtn, one one hand, while other corals thrive.
I am in the midst of making some changes...
I'll detail them soon..
reefmutt
Active member
Hey Jim, thanks for the kind words and you are right, it's probably been a year or more (and countless pages) since I went over my system..
So..
Here's a full system shot
Here goes..
below the main tank, in behind are two 30ish gallon tanks. On the left, water from the tank falls into there before going through thenskimmer compartment and then down into the main sump. The main sump contains siporax and matrix (at the moment-soon to be moved) as well as heaters and filter socks.
The back tank on the right is my main reservoir for wcs. Ro water fills up his tank before going to main sump for top off. There is a pump which is plumbed into the res, the other back tank and the drain. I use this pump to mix water in res, drain other tank and pumping mixed water into other tank once drained. It's all opening and closing valves.
Skimmer is a rebranded, modified dual pump skimz. It has two sicce pumps in it. I love this skimmer. It is absolutely rock solid consistent.
The big sump in back where the display water falls into is very low flow in order to settle out detritus, that's why my mix/drain pump is connected there. After that sump all water passes through skimmer compartment and then falls through the filter socks before going into main sump and returning to display.
Calcium reactor sits to the right of the main sump.
The left hand closet, beside the main system is a 3 tank addition which is connected to the main system and fed by a separate pump in main sump and after filter socks. .
The top tank (up until 2 days ago) contained a dsb with rock and mangroves. I just ripped it out and will put all of my bio media in that tank and keep it in the dark. I pulled the dsb in order to clean up the system a bit and try to eliminate some possible causes of my coral health issues.
The second tank down is a basic frag tank- which is sorely neglected because of the constant algea problems I have. It is next on the list of rehab projects. It is lit by a 36 inch 6 bulb tek fixture. Tank is only 14 inches high and fixture is about 5 inches off the water. Frags in there constantly have better pe and colour than my main system but still have the odd unhappy coral.
The bottom tank used to be a big cheato fuge with live rock etc. this tank also contains a secondary canister filled with crushed coral that my ca reactor pumps through before releasing the water back into the system. This is an attempt to scrub some co2 and get a bit more performance out of the reactor.
Sitting on the tek light fixture is kamoer single doser which pumps ro water to my kalk stirrer which is sitting on the corner of the bottom sump, on right hand side. The doser pumps 2.5 ml/min kalk from 10pm to 10am.
I removed the cheato because several months ago it just stopped growing and instead of trying to get it to grow my adding this or that, I just abandoned using an algea fuge..
The water from this system falls into the main sump and into the same filter sock as the water from my skimmer compartment.
That's it, I think for the system logistics.
The display has 3 150w de radium bulbs and 6 t5 bulbs in ghetto fixtures.
I removed my 4 AI primes that I used for supplemental led but I think I will put them back
For flow I have 2 150 gyres on a hydor wave maker which alternates flow every minute. Behind them I have 2 130 gyres (one is a 230 with new controller) those two pumps are on random and do a good job of blowing down into the middle of the tank as the flows hit each other. The 150s alternate the whole tank water every minute very well.. so I get a good mix of currents..
Ok. I think that covers it!
LOL! Stop dry skimming! Produce a more wet setting and you will get better results.
DiscusHeckel
Acropora Gardener
Hi Matt,
Your set up looks very sophisticated. :thumbsup:
Why are you about to remove siporax and matrix?
Thanks
Bülent
Your set up looks very sophisticated. :thumbsup:
Why are you about to remove siporax and matrix?
Thanks
Bülent
reefmutt
Active member
Ha! Well... this is a wet, slippery slope I'm sure we should slide down..
Thanks, originally, it was only the display and sump but somehow, I convinced my wife to allow me to steal the closet. I'm pretty sure any more attempts at expansion would get me sleeping in the basement with the fish.
Talk about a serious setup!! I'm overly jealous Mattlol nice to see a full run down though
Thanks Dom.. it's been a very long time since I showed the whole system. Not anything to be jealous of... it's only a matter of time before your madness makes your system just as serious!
reefmutt
Active member
Hey Bulent, thanks but I would call it sophisticated, just complicated.. actually, it's not really that complicated.. two pumps.. all gravity feeding back to the lowest point.. if I had an apex with all the monitors and controllers, if call it not sophisticated.. it's an old fashioned set up. But it works.. sometimes..
So, I didn't remove the matrix-siporax, I moved it up to the top tank of the left system. I removed the dsb from there, cleaned out the tank and put all the biomedia there.
Speaking of the siporax, I made a couple changes there. I had originally put it in those green plastic drain cover baskets from Home Depot but I was worried that maybe they were leaching something into my water and causing the odd poor health issues on some of the corals, so I pulled them out and put the siporax in some pieces of 3 inch pvc piping and drilled holes in it for low circulation.
Still trying to figure out why some corals have tip recession while others are growing nicely.. not to mention the colour being off in many corals..
This is what the siporax was originally in:
Now they are in pvc:
I don't know if the green plastic was bad or not but I do know that the pvc is safe..
Also speaking of the siporax, I put it in the system back in late December..
N was around 40-50
This is my n today.. marginally better..
Throughout this 3-4 month period, the colours have shifted to browns from reds and purples, tips have receded on many corals and some have rtned or stned.
After looking back at when I had the best growth and colour, it was between 18 months ago through to when I had the alk disaster last October. Throughout that period I was doing a lot of playing with additives and settled on biggles juice.. my recipe being koral color and Micro e at a reduced rate from the recommended dose. I stopped all that last October with the alk disaster and have added nothing since. I have also had poor results since then.. there was a positive rebound in Jan/feb but more recently, I am not happy with what I see in the tank.
So! I decided to stop my spirulina brine shrimp and mysis feeding and went to flakes.. yes flakes. I have been using seachem and Vitalis flakes for about 3 weeks. I did this because of the preservatives contained in these flakes... specifically, the Zinc, manganese, copper, iron amongst others..
I have also begun adding iodine again..
What I have also just started, as of this weekend is Prodibio's biodigest (bacteria) and Bioptim which is a mix of aminos, vitamins and a few trace elements..
from the Prodibio web site:
Bioptim also provides trace elements:
- sulphur for proteins
- iron for plants and fish blood
- cobalt for B vitamins
- calcium, magnesium, manganese, zinc, molybdenum and potassium
This is what Prodibio says about Bioptim:
Bioptim provides the BioDigest bacteria with the micronutrients needed to optimally purify saltwater and improve water quality.
So, I am going to try these two products in an attempt to dose many- but not all- of the things I was dosing in my biggles juice, as well as add Prodibio's complementary bacteria..
What interests me most about the Bioptim is the manganese, Zinc and potassium..
Prodibio suggests two vials of the bacteria per month which is nice and simple and (more labour intensive) 10 vials of the Bioptim per month.. that's a bit more expensive and complicated.. I think I will add 1 vial every weekend and every mid week for a total of 8 vials per month.
Between the flake food, my calcium reactor and the reefroids - and Vitalis coral food, I am also about to try, all the other things in the Bioptim are already being added..
so here we go.. I'll will obviously keep a photographic journal going of what happens...... if anything!
I'll keep everybody posted.
My motivation for this comes mostly from JBNY's success dosing Zinc, iodine and manganese. But also from others experimenting with this group of elements..
wheelman76
New member
I look forward to seeing positive results Matt ,
reefmutt
Active member
Yep.. put on a 4 bulb t5 fixture and then took it off and went back to the 3x150 mh that I had over the tank before...
Yessir.. a lot of changes.. no denying that and not the best course of action, I will acknowledge! But.. it's done..
Thanks Jess, I hope positive results will be the outcome!
I'll give it a good 6 months along this path and see what happens..
DiscusHeckel
Acropora Gardener
Good luck with your new approach Matt. I hope it works out for you.
The idea of using flakes to increase some trace metals is an interesting idea. Do you think these metals are bioavailable to corals? Some folks who use flakes raise the alarm when they get high copper readings in their ICP results. Most of the time copper is bound to organics and is thus not harmful as it is not bio available. I am not a chemist. It might be worth checking this in the Chemistry forum.
Regardless of this, Vitalis flakes are top quality. The company that produce this product, which used to be known as New Era, is based in a town near where I live. But it was taken over by another company, thus the new name.
The idea of using flakes to increase some trace metals is an interesting idea. Do you think these metals are bioavailable to corals? Some folks who use flakes raise the alarm when they get high copper readings in their ICP results. Most of the time copper is bound to organics and is thus not harmful as it is not bio available. I am not a chemist. It might be worth checking this in the Chemistry forum.
Regardless of this, Vitalis flakes are top quality. The company that produce this product, which used to be known as New Era, is based in a town near where I live. But it was taken over by another company, thus the new name.
codydemmel4
Active member
This is interesting, I wonder if this is why I had higher levels of Tin (4) and Copper (3.7) in my triton test. I use flakes 4-5 times a day.
I use the Formula Two flakes, I was thinking about possibly changing to New Era but couldnt find a real reason to make the switch, especially since my fish go crazy for the Formula two flakes.
Last edited:
reefmutt
Active member
Hey Bulent, thanks.. we shall see..
you make an excellent point about the elements in the food. I will absolutely start a thread in the chemistry forum tonight.
Yes, I think Vitalis makes an excellent product. I really love their algea grazer rings.... As do the fish!
The formula one and two flake foods are not available everywhere around here, I am not too familiar with them...
What's the ingredient list? I've never seen tin in an ingredients list for fish food.. certainly copper is often there.
Contents aside, many of the flake foods available are so good that it's certainly a cheaper option to frozen foods, in tanks with lots of well fed fish..
So here are my latest numbers from last weekend:
No3 ~ 25 ppm
Po4 ~ .13 ppm
Alk 7.2
Ca 440
Mag 1320
K 430 with salifert. On the high side.. not sure why.. I may get a new salifert test kit and retest..
Not a spot of cyano in main display but some in frag tank and lit sump.
Bryopsis grows steadily in out of the way spots like on the gyres and around overflow..
Bubble algea also grows well.. but no algeas are near plague proportions.
Still only have to clean glass every 4 days and the snails have really cleaned up the side panels of the tank.. no signs of hair algea anywhere in the system..
codydemmel4
Active member
This are the ingredients that I just pulled from their website:
Fish fillets, krill (Euphasia Pacifica plankton), marine algae, wheat gluten, squid, refined fish oils, wheat flour, garlic, spirulina, lecithin, brine shrimp nauplii, mussels, marine fish eggs, adult brine shrimp, vitamins (retinol (Vitamin A), cholecalciferol (Vitamin D3), tocopherol acetate (Vitamin E), L-ascorbic acid phosphate (Vitamin C), menadione (Vitamin K3), thiamine mononitrate (Vitamin B1), riboflavin (Vitamin B2), pyridoxine (Vitamin B6), cobalamin (Vitamin B12), biotin (Vitamin H), panthotenic acid (Vitamin B5), folic acid (Vitamin B11), niacin (Vitamin B3)), minerals, antioxidants, carotenoid pigments.
Guaranteed analysis
Protein 51.3 %
Fiber 1.0 %
Fat 12.1 %
Ash 5.1 %
I don't see anything bad in there that I should worry about, at least I dont think so. I am still trying to figure out where the tin levels came from. I read a lot of articles about it leaching from newer PVC and mine is definitely new as it was bought just back in December but I am not sure how much I believe that. THey are both really low levels that I am not very concerned about them, but I will be sending in another triton test in a month to follow up on them. I am hoping that it was from the ro/di but I am not usre, as I tested the TDS last week and it was either 1-2. I am not sure how long it was at that but maybe after all the ATO water and water changes that added the tin and copper to the water? I am ordering new filters today.
Fish fillets, krill (Euphasia Pacifica plankton), marine algae, wheat gluten, squid, refined fish oils, wheat flour, garlic, spirulina, lecithin, brine shrimp nauplii, mussels, marine fish eggs, adult brine shrimp, vitamins (retinol (Vitamin A), cholecalciferol (Vitamin D3), tocopherol acetate (Vitamin E), L-ascorbic acid phosphate (Vitamin C), menadione (Vitamin K3), thiamine mononitrate (Vitamin B1), riboflavin (Vitamin B2), pyridoxine (Vitamin B6), cobalamin (Vitamin B12), biotin (Vitamin H), panthotenic acid (Vitamin B5), folic acid (Vitamin B11), niacin (Vitamin B3)), minerals, antioxidants, carotenoid pigments.
Guaranteed analysis
Protein 51.3 %
Fiber 1.0 %
Fat 12.1 %
Ash 5.1 %
I don't see anything bad in there that I should worry about, at least I dont think so. I am still trying to figure out where the tin levels came from. I read a lot of articles about it leaching from newer PVC and mine is definitely new as it was bought just back in December but I am not sure how much I believe that. THey are both really low levels that I am not very concerned about them, but I will be sending in another triton test in a month to follow up on them. I am hoping that it was from the ro/di but I am not usre, as I tested the TDS last week and it was either 1-2. I am not sure how long it was at that but maybe after all the ATO water and water changes that added the tin and copper to the water? I am ordering new filters today.
reefmutt
Active member
Thanks Connor. Not much choice when installing in a closet but it does simplify placement and plumbing. It's all gravity.
That's all pretty standard ingredients.. it's the 'minerals' down at the bottom that would could be more detailed..
I really know nothing about tin.. it's such an odd one to be accumulating.. I know it ain't cheap but have you thought about mixing a batch of salt water in your usual way and then sending a sample of that for testing? See if tin comes back in your makeup/wc water..
A tds of 1-2 would not freak me out.. let's me know it's time to change resin but not that you are poisoning your system..
