Learning/rebuilding from my epic fail

one of the best colour improvements I ever got was from lowering the length of my high intensity lighting period over my display.

Most of the high end coral retailers run low par for long periods. Dana Riddle also has shown that most photosynthesis takes place in the first hour of sunrise and last hour of sunset -- So much so in fact, that those two hours of productivity can dwarf the rest of the corals progress for the entire day.

High par slows photosynthesis -- The science has been done, this is no longer a hunch or a hypothesis. It helps color and growth :D
 
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Most of the high end coral retailers run low par for long periods. Dana Riddle also has shown that most photosynthesis takes place in the first hour of sunrise and last hour of sunset -- So much so in fact, that those two hours of productivity can dwarf the rest of the corals progress for the entire day.

High par slows photosynthesis -- The science has been done, this is no longer a hunch or a hypothesis. It helps color and growth :D

My corals' growth rate (very fast) and PAR (high to very high) they receive not to be consistent with the findings of Dana Riddle. I am not in a position to argue against his findings. My case may or may not be statistically significant. Nevertheless, it is a fact.
 
My corals' growth rate (very fast) and PAR (high to very high) they receive not to be consistent with the findings of Dana Riddle. I am not in a position to argue against his findings. My case may or may not be statistically significant. Nevertheless, it is a fact.

I never said they won't grow under high light -- I said photosynthesis is maximized in lower par (250-300 par), additionally, photosynthesis is also maximized at 9dKH alkalinity. Doesn't mean other numbers won't work (like say, the ocean, which receives significantly higher par and lower dkH).

That said -- T5 and MH aren't really high par, they're kind of medium par. We always thought they were high par, but that's because we didn't have anything more powerful at the time.
 
So here’s my question of the day...
No sarcasm here- honest question..
What does photosynthesis have to do with coral growth and/or color?
Light activates the zoox which causes them to produce carbohydrates (essentially) for the coral to consume as a food source.
I assume this would promote good growth- assuming all another parameters are good..
Does this affect COLOURS? (Edit: I didn’t mean colonies)
Calling on more knowledgeable individuals than myself!
 
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It's basic biology, same as plants in theory, but potentially different in exact action. The coral is producing food for itself to help growth. Now, if it's creating carbohydrates as a coral as it would if it were a plant, i'm not sure there -- But it's creating energy regardless.

In the wild, corals have a lot of food in the water column, and in Biggles videos you can see HD closeups of polyps actively ingesting food flowing through the water. This is why in some countries (EU, notably Italy) that Phytoplankton systems are a HUGE market -- In Italy it's nearly considered essential if you're trying to maximize growth, as it gives the coral what simple photosynthesis cannot.

As for photosynthesis itself, it's a living animal, so it's making what it can to survive. This allows it to more readily take up calcium, alkalinity and Magnesium to create a coral skeleton and accelerate growth.

As for par, corals in the wild develop zooxanthellae to basically give themselves shade from the unrelenting sun. This is why so many wild colonies are darker colors, and colorful corals are more rare -- More colorful corals fail the survival of the fittest test. When the water gets hot during summer, and the sun is beating down on them, the lighter colored corals are less likely to survive than the "green dogs" -- This is because the darker corals with more zooxanthellae are better protected from the sun. This is doubly useful, as it also increases their rate of photosynthesis due to the increased number of zoox (more engines churning out energy).

This means higher par is more likely to cause your corals to darken up. This is also exacerbated by nutrient levels, so it's harder to find the intersection of where Par & Nutrients collide to give = Color.

Color. If lighting is too intense too fast, coral start losing tissue. Although if one were to gradually raise lighting intensity you'll see corals begin to darken before they die, or at least attempt to darken. In a tank, this is much harder than in nature, as in nature they have significantly more energy at their disposal than we give them not only from the suns spectrum, but because the suns intensity, and the fact that most of the extremely hardy corals are what we don't collect -- because of their seeming lack of color. The phytoplankton is also a factor, we force them to only rely on photosynthesis, which hampers their potential as well as survival in times of duress.
 
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Thanks. Interesting stuff..
I like to add a pinch of Reef Roids/Coral Sprint every night as a phyto replacement..

‘This means higher par is more likely to cause your corals to darken up. This is also exacerbated by nutrient levels, so it's harder to find the intersection of where Par & Nutrients collide to give = Color.’
To Par and nutrients, I would add duration as well..
When you said many coral growers in the US use long, low par photo periods.. can you be more specific?
 
When you said many coral growers in the US use long, low par photo periods.. can you be more specific?

Store hours.

If you're going to be blasting a coral from 10am to 10pm you probably can't run them at 100%. Even dana riddle had said in a macna talk that running lights an extra hour is the same difference as running them 10% higher intensity without a duration change.

So most of these guys (like WWC) run their par lower because they're running the lights all day long.

So when you're running a 10-14 hour photoperiod, it's way easier to burn up the corals. My photoperiod is 13 hours 15 minutes -- 7:15am to 8:30pm
 
I'm a total layman here, but isn't there also the situation to take into account where higher light means that corals require less zooxanthellae to produce the required amount of food when there is higher light and thus they are able to shed lots of their zooxanthellae at high light levels, leading to better coral colouration? I always thought that was the reason for the high light levels required in sps tanks.
 
I have a lot of questions about this topic like illimenae does. Very interesting. Also does anyone have any good links to the Italian tanks who use live foods and whatnot to push growth?
 
I have a lot of questions about this topic like illimenae does. Very interesting. Also does anyone have any good links to the Italian tanks who use live foods and whatnot to push growth?

Brandon,

The link below provides a good summary of reef food. Please note that one needs to make a distinction between ingestion and digestion of food offered to corals. Borneman makes this point quite clear when he discusses the role of phytoplankton as a food source for hard corals (refer to Part 3 in the link below).

Enjoy.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/eb/index.php
 
Store hours.

If you're going to be blasting a coral from 10am to 10pm you probably can't run them at 100%. Even dana riddle had said in a macna talk that running lights an extra hour is the same difference as running them 10% higher intensity without a duration change.

So most of these guys (like WWC) run their par lower because they're running the lights all day long.

So when you're running a 10-14 hour photoperiod, it's way easier to burn up the corals. My photoperiod is 13 hours 15 minutes -- 7:15am to 8:30pm

Certainly long photoperiods will lead to coral fatigue. I have no doubt.. that's why I reduced my photo period but I always though that at least some high intensity light within a photo period was beneficial- more so than just running low level all day...
 
I'm a total layman here, but isn't there also the situation to take into account where higher light means that corals require less zooxanthellae to produce the required amount of food when there is higher light and thus they are able to shed lots of their zooxanthellae at high light levels, leading to better coral colouration? I always thought that was the reason for the high light levels required in sps tanks.

Really not sure about this one.. zoox provide both a food source for the coral and protection from intense light.. so what you say would mean the coral would be shedding and trying to protect itself at the same time...
And I don't think all color in corals comes from zoox.. biochromes (about which, I know very little) seem to also play a part in coloration..
 
Brandon,

The link below provides a good summary of reef food. Please note that one needs to make a distinction between ingestion and digestion of food offered to corals. Borneman makes this point quite clear when he discusses the role of phytoplankton as a food source for hard corals (refer to Part 3 in the link below).

Enjoy.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/eb/index.php

Thanks Bulent, I'll give that a read.
 
No. I have tried, in the past when n got below 1ppm..
Every time I try aminos, I get cyano.. and I guess I've never had low enough nutrients to see a positive effect from using them.

Depends which amino you use too. Some of them have carbon in them, like ME Corals Amino.
 
No. I have tried, in the past when n got below 1ppm..
Every time I try aminos, I get cyano.. and I guess I've never had low enough nutrients to see a positive effect from using them.

I was curious as you have amazing colors. I just started using the amino acid called Fuel. After two weeks I am noticing more algae on my pumps and back wall, even getting brown spots in my sand.

My nutrient levels are low. Po4 undetectable and no3 less than 1. I was always happy with my colors and growth bu always hear the great stuff about aminos but I'm wanting to stop using them already.
 
I was curious as you have amazing colors. I just started using the amino acid called Fuel. After two weeks I am noticing more algae on my pumps and back wall, even getting brown spots in my sand.

My nutrient levels are low. Po4 undetectable and no3 less than 1. I was always happy with my colors and growth bu always hear the great stuff about aminos but I'm wanting to stop using them already.

That's seachem right? Never tried it. Not sure if it has a carbon source in it..
Aminos is one of those things with a huge range of opinions. I'm not sure they are really necessary.. unless under conditions like yours where nutrient are low...
When nutrients are so low that corals are pale, that may be a time when aminos can help but otherwise, I'd nutrient are there, I think they are not needed..

Vitamins is another area where some find they are great and others say useless.. I have been using AF vitamins for a good year, I think. I like them.. I couldn't say if they are responsible for my colors but they are now firmly in my dosing regiment...
 
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As for par, corals in the wild develop zooxanthellae to basically give themselves shade from the unrelenting sun.
I don't think this is correct.

Corals will actually shed zooxanthellae in higher light conditions. One of the byproducts of photosynthesis is oxygen a very reactive free radical. Free radicals are bad because they react with other things in a corals system disrupting biological processes.

Corals 'brown out' in lower light conditions to produce more food.

Though it is probably not the only reason, colours in corals are thought to be a sunscreen, either directly reflecting light energy or absorbing and re-emitting it.

Danna Riddle has written a lot on corals and colour.
 
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