let the insanity begin

I am telling you Marc, if you saw the walls in my tank room, you would go nuts. I was "fixing" a plumbing problem today and yet again turned the house supply line on again without making sure the RO supply valve was off. Water sprayed all over the room and just beaded up. I easily wiped down the walls and shop-vac'd up the rest. I would never recommend FRP after seeing this amazing result.

My friends think I am a genius!:D
 
Great job!!! Watching your project makes me even more excited about my upgrades. Keep it up!
PS: I really do like the idea of a wood burner to heat the place. My father-in-law is building his home, and the radiant floor heating (3 floors with 12,000+ feet of tubing) is being heated by a wood burner. It would pay for itself in less than 3 winter months, if you're spending $1,000+ each month. Just a thought.
 
So Rick, with all that you're doing with your green house, are you still working the same occupation you have listed, and is that full-time?

Jonathan, I have no doubt you are a genius. :D
 
The thing about the diaphram pumps is their PSI/$ ratio is very good. Much better than pitson pumps. I will start running my skimmer with 2 Luft diaphram pumps because the volume of air is much greater than a piston pump.
 
TJcop- thank you for the kind words.

jnarowe- the psi/$ ratio all depends on what models of pumps are being compared, plus how many pumps have to be bought to run how many skimmers, plus power consumption. I'm getting ahead of my own post, but the Lufts were costing me $34.99 each (my wholesale price), put out 7.1 psi (rated max), also put out 0.14 cfm (rated max). We already know that the volume and pressure are inversely proportional. The Luft will only put out about 0.09 cfm at 1 psi (25" of depth), and only about 0.05 cfm at 3 psi (75" of depth). I would have needed 44 of them (44 GOOD ones that is). They use 5 watts each (220 watts total for 44 of them).
These two linear pumps I bought were $348 each and use 77 - 95 watts each. Saved me about 30 watts of power. They put out a rated max of 5.7 cfm and rated max of 120" of depth. (1 psi is roughly equivalent to 23" - 25" of depth). They are rated for 4.2 cfm AT 50" of depth, plenty to run 22 skimmers each. I saved money all the way around by switching to these pumps. Purchase price was less, they have more volume, more than adequate pressure, and use less power.




The seventh tank has been built, wet tested, and sitting on it's stand for some time. I now have two tanks ready and waiting for air pumps (told you I was getting ahead of my own post). It was leak free and that was two in a row!!! It seems I may have found something. With many of the previous tanks, laying glue down in a thick bead/ fillet allowed gases to come up through the glue. This out-gasing formed air bubbles in the glue. I have a suspicion that is where many of the leaks were coming from. On this tank, I used my finger to spread out the glue bead to a very thin layer, much like one would do with silicone caulking. Pushing my finger along the glue and spreading it out, seems to make a seal without the bubbles. We will see on the next tank if it works the same way.



I did get fed up with waiting for those Luft pumps, and as I said earlier, they have been really inconsistent in quality. I purchased two large air pumps and got two new manifolds plumbed in to supply the skimmers. The manifolds are the two runs of 3/4" pipe below the 2" blower manifold. Bleed valves had to be installed for now because there are only seven skimmers on each run. There is an identical pump on the other side of the greenhouse which supplies the second manifold.

mini-100_0631.JPG


Now for the bad news. It was time to recharge the kati ani deionizer. The kati portion had been recharged and was being flushed when I heard this sound like a burst of air (whoosh/ psh). I was standing right there by the units and it sounded like a hose had blown off from pressure. The kati unit started to lean over... and all of the resin beads started to come gushing out the bottom.

mini-100_0632.JPG


Somehow, the unit burst/ cracked open at the bottom, the worst possible place. If it had been at the top, the unit wouldn't have tipped over and I would have been able to save the resin. I just don't understand how one person could have so much bad luck. I fully realize that some of the issues and problems have been due to my own lack of knowledge, failing to fully research some aspects of the project, and failing to go back and revise plans after something had changed. But that just doesn't account for all (or even most) of the problems I've had.

Now, I bought the deionizer from Dr.'s Foster and Smith. I already know for a fact that they are not selling these units anymore, but I called them any way. They say the best they can do is to give me a contact number for Aquatechnic (gee, thanks). As far as I know, all of the U.S. companies that I found during my research phase (more than three years ago by this time) do not handle the Aquatechnic brand anymore. I have only seen one U.S. source recently and I'm not even sure if the deal has gone through. That was a friend of Steven Pro, maybe I can contact him and see if he can help me. The other option is to go back to Aquatechnic directly...very big hassle first with translating emails, then with import and customs duties. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR



Or maybe I should try to run water without the kati. The ani would pull out the phosphates, nitrates, silicates, etc., but not having the kati MAYBE would leave in the calcium and magnesium. Heck, who am I kidding, it could never work out that good for me, plus there's probably a ton of other crap in the water that needs to get pulled out by the kati.

So, here we go again, tanks full of stuff and no way to make good water... only this time it's not just live rock, it's corals too. It sure seems to me that working towards a dream shouldn't make a person want to go to the nearest corner and have a god cry.
 
Rick, since you've been making your onw tanks, can you make your own resin reactor? Can you post a picture of the top section of a good one, or did you only have one? Could you send that one through a table saw, and glue a base on it, making it somewhat shorter than it was?

Can you not reuse as much of that resin as possible, just foregoing what is mixed up in the rocky substrate? That's a mess alright. :(

The part about using #16 in the seams to create a fillet is absolutely true. You want that bead to be very small. I buy small tips from the local hobby shop to reduce the size of the output.

nozzle.jpg
 
I suppose all of that is possible (to make my own by repairing the old or making a new one, and trying to salvage the resin), and that may end up being the only viable alternative for me. Although, at the time, all I could do was shut of the water and walk away from the whole thing in utter disgust. I have two (one kati, one ani), the second one (the ani) is sitting right next to the mess. It is the white colord resin with the blue end caps. The bottom cap is flat, the top one is almost identical, except that they have two tubing fittings. The fittings are 10mm. One fitting (the input) just leads to the inside of the chamber. The second fitting is connected to a rigid tube that runs down to the bottom of the chamber through the center of the chamber. There is a pretty clear picture of both units back on page 5 of this thread, the pic almost all the way to the bottom of that page, in my last post on that page. I'll have to take a better look to see if there is any kind of structure/filter in there that keeps the resin from coming up that rigid tube. It burst about 1/4" above where the acrylic chamber was seated into the bottom end cap. It didn't crack straight across either, it is kind of a boloney (angled) crack.

I was using a 60cc syringe to lay down the glue, but the rubber plunger gets soggy and wants to come loose. I have since been using the old trusty turkey baster. :D
 
Rick,

You can buy the resin at a number of places. Resindepot.com etc...
I have a few local places I can buy it too and get it within a day. Just look for water purification supplies. You can make this also. It does not really need to be done under pressure. Just use a pvc tube (say 2-3") and let gravity feed it. The slower the better as you know.

You can do it! I have faith :)
 
I cannot believe this has happened!

I almost want to take one for the team and buy one of those $200 riccordia.

Hope you are able to get the unit back up and running.

Carl
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6572377#post6572377 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rick rottet
Now for the bad news. It was time to recharge the kati ani deionizer. The kati portion had been recharged and was being flushed when I heard this sound like a burst of air (whoosh/ psh). I was standing right there by the units and it sounded like a hose had blown off from pressure. The kati unit started to lean over... and all of the resin beads started to come gushing out the bottom.

mini-100_0632.JPG


Somehow, the unit burst/ cracked open at the bottom, the worst possible place. If it had been at the top, the unit wouldn't have tipped over and I would have been able to save the resin. I just don't understand how one person could have so much bad luck. I fully realize that some of the issues and problems have been due to my own lack of knowledge, failing to fully research some aspects of the project, and failing to go back and revise plans after something had changed. But that just doesn't account for all (or even most) of the problems I've had.

Now, I bought the deionizer from Dr.'s Foster and Smith. I already know for a fact that they are not selling these units anymore, but I called them any way. They say the best they can do is to give me a contact number for Aquatechnic (gee, thanks). As far as I know, all of the U.S. companies that I found during my research phase (more than three years ago by this time) do not handle the Aquatechnic brand anymore. I have only seen one U.S. source recently and I'm not even sure if the deal has gone through. That was a friend of Steven Pro, maybe I can contact him and see if he can help me. The other option is to go back to Aquatechnic directly...very big hassle first with translating emails, then with import and customs duties. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Or maybe I should try to run water without the kati. The ani would pull out the phosphates, nitrates, silicates, etc., but not having the kati MAYBE would leave in the calcium and magnesium. Heck, who am I kidding, it could never work out that good for me, plus there's probably a ton of other crap in the water that needs to get pulled out by the kati.
Kip Tani (ktani here on RC) is the guy trying to be the new importer for Aquatechnik. I have not heard from him lately, though.
 
WOW, thanks for finding us Steven. I appreciate you letting me know. I did write an email, plug it into Google language tool translator and sent it off to M. ReiB at Aquatechnic. Very cool translation program, not really a hassle at all. Back during my original correspondences with Aquatechnic, I had to translate the emails one word at a time and then piece it all together.


Carl- thanks for the encouragement, my friend. (and the offer, but those Rics were $15,000, but for you, I'd let them go for $200. heehee.) :D

Treeman- thank you too for the encouragement. There shouldn't be too much pressure on that system. Whatever residual comes out of the RO, or when flushing the units, whatever pressure comes out of the tap. I really can't understand how this thing broke like that... other than maybe it had a flaw in it that weakened over time. There is also a plastics fabrication company about 45 miles south of me down by the university, so maybe they can repair it or make me a new cannister. Like you said, it surely could be made from pvc. I WILL get this fixed, just have to pull myself out of this depressing funk I've been in lately (again).I do want to see what Aquatechnic has to say. I mean, it's not nearly as tragic as getting hit by a hurricane!!! Do you have the new GH all enclosed yet? running?
 
If it does, it's not warm enough to be noticed by touching the units. Most of the time, there is condensation on them since the water flowing through them is cool from the tap and it is always warm in the GH. I'm sure that since there is a chemical reaction going on, (ion exchange), that there is some amount of heat generated, but I wouldn't know which direction the heat is going (exothermic vs. endothermic). Whatever heat may be generated, it is miniscule enough that it is easily overcome by 55 degree tap water.

It seemed like there was, somehow, a pressure that built up inside the unit. When it blew, there was definitely a sound of air pressure being released. All seems very strange to me.
 
Maybe a clog in the line? I don't think water pressure from the tap could break that tube though. If you weren't there when it happened you migt think it got nocked over but since you were there and hear it, that's a bit different. Could the sound have been water rather than air?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6575825#post6575825 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Maybe a clog in the line? I don't think water pressure from the tap could break that tube though. If you weren't there when it happened you migt think it got nocked over but since you were there and hear it, that's a bit different. Could the sound have been water rather than air?

Or the sound of the resin pouring out?
 
/shrug

water was flowing freely (at least as far as I could tell by just looking at it) from the tap and out the discharge tube into the sink.

The sound could have been water, I suppose, but it sure sounded like some sort of pressure had been released. The first thing I did was to look at the hoses to make sure they were still connected. By the time I looked, (probably less than two seconds) the unit started to tip over and that was when I noticed all of the resin coming out of it. I am sure the sound was somewhat muffled by the weight and density of the resin, so maybe it could have been a release of water pressure.

Well, I did hear back from Aquatechnic. They pointed me to contact Kip Tani as well. They must have forwarded my email to Kip because he sent me an email stating that he is indeed a new U.S. distributor for Aquatechnic. He said he would do what he could to try and help me, but is not expecting his first shipment until next month. I will for sure need to figure out some sort of solution before that, even if it is only a temporary one. Hopefully, Kip can work a permanent solution for me.
 
Actually that is a good point. Resin does make a strange sound as it tumbles and the noise could just have been it releasing through a crack, making it more probable that you had a product defect.
 
There was a distinct and sudden sound which was, I'm sure, the release of pressure of some sort. Probably also combined with the muffled sound of the acrylic breaking (muffled by the amount of resin inside the canister). Whether the sudden release was from air or water, I don't know. The resin coming out just sounded like pouring sand, didn't make much noise at all.

Here are some close up pics of the breakage. This is the bottom end of the kati unit.
mini-100_0638.JPG


The bottom end cap. There are several small round "pegs" and several elongated structures which act as channels to support what looks like a very fine mesh (like a micron filter). As I suspected, there is some structure/filter to allow the water to flow through, but keep the resin in the canister.
mini-100_0639.JPG


The longest portion of the acrylic separated from the inside wall of the end cap, so maybe I can gently persuade the rest of the acrylic away from the cap, cut the bottom edge of the canister square, also cut the inner rigid tube to length, and put it back together. Anybody know if there is a type of solvent/glue/sealant that will join/seal acrylic to plastic?

For Marc, a picture of the end cap. This is the still intact top cap for the ani unit.
mini-100_0636.JPG


I did manage to scoop up most of the resin. It is about seven inches short of the amount in the ani, but I am sure it is an adequate amount to do the job. If I am able to temporarily fix this, then I can recharge when the kati turns color and never have to worry about running out of ani capacity. It will definitely get another run through with acid, just to make sure it isn't contaminated with any bacteria from being on the gravel.
mini-100_0634.JPG
 
That's wild. That break sure looks like a catastrophic failure. I wonder what kind of pressure would be in there? Any chance of some kind of siphon developing and causing it? No CO2 involved right? Bizarre!
 
I would look more toward a clog in the outlet (and then look for a solution that wont let it happen again, ie:pressure relief valve or similar).
Line pressure is definitely enough to crack the tubing. It looks thin. I would have thought the end cap would go first rather than blowing the tube.
Do you recharge in the reactor, or remove the media to a bucket? Could the acid have weakened the tube? Probably...
You do seem to have contracted a luck virus, but keep your head up, its all educational!:D
Chris
 
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