Let's see those non-Indo acanthastrea lordhowensis!
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ReefDoctorMicromussas
In Memoriam
Those are gorgeous! heuerfan 
I have seen them before I think? But they have grown... The white rimmed acans I have NEVER seen anyone else have
I have seen them before I think? But they have grown... The white rimmed acans I have NEVER seen anyone else have
heuerfan
Active member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7963999#post7963999 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by doctor64776
Those are gorgeous! heuerfan
I have seen them before I think? But they have grown... The white rimmed acans I have NEVER seen anyone else have
Thanks Doctor, those Aussies are my prized pieces the rest are indos
Unfortunately i'm having problems with the white/red/green center. The green center has faded and turned red, very little trace of green. Some say because of the high temperature of my tank 82-84 (summer time 
) and some say because of lighting. I'm hoping the green center will come back winter time.
marillion
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964024#post7964024 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by heuerfan
Thanks Doctor, those Aussies are my prized pieces the rest are indos
...or you could send me some frags and I'll tell you if a constant 77 degrees brings the green center back.
It'll be a fun experiment! You send me some Aussie lord frags, and I do all the work!
Peace,
Chip
heuerfan
Active member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964352#post7964352 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marillion
...or you could send me some frags and I'll tell you if a constant 77 degrees brings the green center back.
It'll be a fun experiment! You send me some Aussie lord frags, and I do all the work!
Peace,
Chip
LOL, i may consider if you send me a frag of toxic..............
Eric Boerner
Coral Cutter
So I have to ask then... Do you feel good knowing that you are trading in a black market, CITES restricted coral? Furthering black market trade?
You know what happens to collectors when they trace ivory from the source to the collector?
zeppelin
www.corareef.org
Allot of skeletal corals require CITES permits to get in. Almost everything except soft corals, in fact. The restrictions on the Japanese and some other 'non indo' lords and other corals has little if anything to do with how 'rare' or protected they are. Its mostly due to US regulations regarding the import from the originating country. More to do with US politics than anything else. So, no, it doesn't bother me all that much.
marillion
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964365#post7964365 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by heuerfan
LOL, i may consider if you send me a frag of toxic..............
...and that, ladies & gents, it's what's known as a 'done deal.'
You'll have PM when I get back to Myrtle Beach, my friend.
Peace,
Chip
marillion
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7966655#post7966655 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zeppelin
Allot of skeletal corals require CITES permits to get in. Almost everything except soft corals, in fact. The restrictions on the Japanese and some other 'non indo' lords and other corals has little if anything to do with how 'rare' or protected they are. Its mostly due to US regulations regarding the import from the originating country. More to do with US politics than anything else. So, no, it doesn't bother me all that much.
However, this begs the question...is a frag of a captive-grown colony originating from a frag of an 'illegal' coral *still* illegal?
Who would know such a thing? USF&W?
Peace,
Chip
55semireef
Moved On
Nice pictures guys.
canesfan44
New member
I need to get some of these non-indo's(especally those white-rimmed aussies), I have a decent amount of micro's but almost no acans(non-indo that is). I only have the bright green, and a few polyps of a nice orange colony that nearly died last year during one of the hurricanes(not sure which hurricane it was).
Eric Boerner
Coral Cutter
"IF" it was tracked from point of origin to shipper to retailer to collector and then fragged and traced to someone else. Everyone in that chain is guilty of black market trade of a threatened species, if they advertise, sell, and 'buy' knowing it comes from a non-permitting country.
Acanthastrea lordhowensis is listed as an appendix II CITES restricted coral, on all internation trade levels. That means exportation from all countries is strictly controlled through permits. However, Japan has specifically declined to allow any export permits for this species. Having one in your possession is a federal crime if its traced from an illegal export source.
US Customs are the watchdogs that are supposed to ensure that these don't get into the US. If someone is circumventing CITES permits in Japan and shipping these from Indonesia as a wholely different coral (an appendix III open brain coral for instance), customs arent going to know squat. US Customs won't have a clue what the difference between a Japanese Acan is and an Indo-pacific Acan or open brain coral is. But obviously the transhipper, reseller and buyer does. Not only is it unethical to contribute to the illegal trade of these species, it is a crime to knowingly receive one.
So yeah, there is a difference between them, and obviously the price is going to be higher, considering you're dealing in the "ivory" of the coral trade.
I know that people have mentioned that they are relatively hard to find and more expensive, but it seems that a lot of people still seem to have them.
Besides questions of legality (you're not supposed to take the corals outside of the country, or even collect them domestically without a permit), you rarely see acans in stores here. Only sites online that list a huge collection on an "feel free to order, but expect to wait a long time" basis tend to have any. One LFS near me has one very beautiful acan, but it's in the "not for sale" tank.
Also, our acans are usually advertised not as "lordhowensis," but as other species. For example, I am thinking about buying this: http://www.petballoon.co.jp/item/viewItem.php?prm=CE046 and it is listed as "hillae." (I also suspect mislabelling in Japan when it comes to English names at times, but I am never sure what to think.)
However, following this thread has made me wonder whether the Acans that we buy in Japan are even Japanese Acans to begin with. I'm sure some of the illegally harvested floating around on our local Yahoo auctions are true Japanese acans, but I generally prefer to buy from people who can be held accountable. Most stores here don't list the origin of the piece, except sometimes you see, "Okinawa produced" stamped on a more expensive soft coral.
It doesn't seem to matter for most people here though.
Besides questions of legality (you're not supposed to take the corals outside of the country, or even collect them domestically without a permit), you rarely see acans in stores here. Only sites online that list a huge collection on an "feel free to order, but expect to wait a long time" basis tend to have any. One LFS near me has one very beautiful acan, but it's in the "not for sale" tank.
Also, our acans are usually advertised not as "lordhowensis," but as other species. For example, I am thinking about buying this: http://www.petballoon.co.jp/item/viewItem.php?prm=CE046 and it is listed as "hillae." (I also suspect mislabelling in Japan when it comes to English names at times, but I am never sure what to think.)
However, following this thread has made me wonder whether the Acans that we buy in Japan are even Japanese Acans to begin with. I'm sure some of the illegally harvested floating around on our local Yahoo auctions are true Japanese acans, but I generally prefer to buy from people who can be held accountable. Most stores here don't list the origin of the piece, except sometimes you see, "Okinawa produced" stamped on a more expensive soft coral.
It doesn't seem to matter for most people here though.
Eric Boerner
Coral Cutter
All corals fall under Apendix II internationally, but many fall under Appendix III with quotas from Fiji and Indonesia, with Indonesia being the primary exporter with the highest quota availability.
If an Acan gets smuggled out of Japan via courier to Indonesia, and then gets permitted as Lobophyllia, no one in customs is going to know. An email is sent from the exporting party to the reseller and the price is jacked up on the piece. Exporter understands the risk they are taking, the reseller understands the risk they are taking, and the buyer should as well.
If an Acan gets smuggled out of Japan via courier to Indonesia, and then gets permitted as Lobophyllia, no one in customs is going to know. An email is sent from the exporting party to the reseller and the price is jacked up on the piece. Exporter understands the risk they are taking, the reseller understands the risk they are taking, and the buyer should as well.
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