Lets talk about Ich

[Paul B]

I love this subject. First of all, my fish do not have ich.
But I am in a delema and I can't seem to find out the reason.
My fish do not get ich. I don't want them to but for some reason they are immune. I know there is ich in the tank for a few reasons. When a fish is about to die either from old age or an accident, (like jumping out), it develops ich. The remaining 15 fish in the tank do not contract the paracite. I am not talking about a week or two, I am talking about 25 years.
Last week I bought a fire fish and some type of large goby. The tanks in the LFS where I got them were infested with obvious ich. The fish diden't look too bad because of the copper in the tanks. As soon as I put the fish in my reef they developed full blown ich. The firefish died. I removed the goby and now have it in a spare tank with copper. I am quite certain my other fish will not develop the disease. My tank for some reason is unique but you should quarintine your fish and if they exhibit ich they should be treated immediately. I would use copper because it works in about two days, you can use hypo but the fish may die in the course of the treatment.
For the first ten years or so I lost many fish to ich but now the tank is a reef and I can only assume that the inhabitants are much healthier and somehow be able to carry the paracite but not be affected by it.
I would be very wealthy If I knew why.
Saltwater fish were not available in the US before about 1969 because there was no liquid copper for sale commercially to cure ich.
I am curious if any other tanks seem to be immune to ich and if anyone has any theories about the reason.
Like I said, quarintine your fish or you will probably be sorry.
Have a great day (and don't do what I do)
Paul

 

[zoanthid2009]

thats pretty sweet

 

[firewill65]

I was in a LFS the other day and asked the salesman how long should I quarantine fish for...his reply was to let them float in the water for a while till the temps equal out. I then reminded him that was acclimation and I'm asking about quarantine. I said i've read you should quarantine your fish in case they have hidden issues, such as ich. He stated all fish and tanks have ich...its only when the fish get stressed do they develop it. I walked out of there ****ed off wondering why they would let someone like that work there...after reading though, I'm wondering if there is some truth to this. What do you all think? Thanks

 

[zoanthid2009]

only a few tanks do not have ich. The salesman was right ich comes out when fish become stressed. The only way a none ich tank can be achieved would be to quarintine all fish at hyposlain for weeks then transfer them.

 

[firewill65]

anyone else?

 

[flfirefighter13]

I recal reading a while back that ich is present in nearly any tank, I cant remeber what book it was but it said that inverts and even some coral will host ich but not be affected. I followed a STRICT 2 week QT period when i was first buying fish and treated with copper. I soon found that yes there is ich in my tank even though all fish had been QT so maybe there is some truth to the hosting idea. I know ich has several life cycles and I really cant remeber if the article said that coral or inverts only host one particular phase of it, I will dig around and see if I can find what book it was in.
On another note I am still QT ing new fish but have noticed I have a foxface that is always stresed, he just seems to be a jumpy fish. Every time I do anything major in the tank, or add anything new (even a frag or two) he gets ich for 3 days. the ich clears up and he survives but this has happened at least 15 times in the year ive had him. Only thing I have done to fight it was add a cleaner shrimp, Im sure if I pulled the foxface out to treat he would die. Im not apro but thats my input

 

[firewill65]

from what I've learned...ich sucks!!! What are some things I can do at the begining stages of setting up my tank to help prevent getting it? or can I?

 

[zoanthid2009]

well if you have no coral just run your salinity at 1.009 and no ich can live but if you have coral you cant do hyposalin. so in a reef tank just make sure you QT everyhting

 

[billsreef]

Take a read of the pages linked in this thread. The first two links are the best in terms of both accurate information and readability

In short, 2 weeks is far too short of a QT period to have any real value, I'd recommend 4 weeks as a bare minimum and 6 weeks as better. It is also possible for ich to exist in a population of fish as a sub clinical infection that is not obvious to the naked eye. So just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there. It is quite possible to run a tank without ich, however, since most people do not QT or adequately QT, many people do have ich in their tanks. Corals and other inverts can not get ich, but if they are in tank with ich they can act as carriers. QT'ing inverts without fish for 6 weeks will remove any chance of them being carriers

 

[flfirefighter13]

Bill, Ill check the links in s bit but from what your saying 6 weeks is the magic number...... If we took all fish out and QT in copper for 6 weeks and left the reef tank going as normal with coral and inverts it would break the Ich life cycle completely?

 

[zoanthid2009]

dude dont treat with copper for 6 weeks. The guts of your fish will be destroyed and they porbably wont eat that much. Just run hyposalin and in 6 weeks ALL disease will be gone

 

[Paul B]

I agree with Bill. Ich can happily live in tanks forever and reproduce without growing to epidemic proportions. It all depends on the health of the animals. Our fish need to always be in breeding condition which they rarely are in a tank. If you do any diving you will see very healthy looking fish, quite different than most captive fish. They are more alert and their scales are clearer. Fish in a tank are always stressed as you would be if you were in a POW situation. Tangs especially, which many people feel are ich magnets, are the most stressed being schooling fish. A tang is never seen in the sea alone and if they are, they are looking for other tangs of their school. They know that without the protection of the school they will soon become food.
Paul

 

[eskymick]

I agree with PaulB. Fish are animals just as we are. We're exposed to viruses and harmful bacteria every day. If we're healthy, we don't succumb to those pathogens. The same with fish.

I know I have ich in my tank, but I've never had an outbreak. Now and then I see a spot or two of ich an my Afur angel, but it never gets worse than that. I even have a Powder Blue Tang, and he's never shown any sign of ich .. even right after introduction.

Good water quality, nutritious food (supplemented with vitamins), a resaonable stocking level, and a good skimmer will all go a long way in keeping your fish relatively disease free.

 

[zoanthid2009]

I 3rd those comments. very well put gents

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9040724#post9040724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flfirefighter13
Bill, Ill check the links in s bit but from what your saying 6 weeks is the magic number...... If we took all fish out and QT in copper for 6 weeks and left the reef tank going as normal with coral and inverts it would break the Ich life cycle completely?

If you treat with copper, the treatment only needs to run 4 weeks. However, the reef tank would need to remain fishless for 6 weeks in order to starve out the ich.

zoanthid2009,

Copper will not destroy the guts of any fish. Yes it can be a bit harsh on the fish as opposed to hyposalinity (my preferred treatment) but it doesn't stop anyone from eating

 

[zoanthid2009]

ok aybe not every fish but it can certainly screw some fish up. u agree?

 

[Paul B]

Copper will not destroy the guts of any fish. Yes it can be a bit harsh on the fish as opposed to hyposalinity (my preferred treatment) but it doesn't stop anyone from eating

Correct again. I used to keep copper in my tank almost continousely especially with hippo tangs and one of them lived ten years. As I said, almost all fish are shipped in copper.

 

[zoanthid2009]

Paul B

you were probably using low dosage of copper that would not effect the internals. If one treated a fish to get rid of a disease it might screw their stomachs up.

 

[Paul B]

No, no lose dosage. Copper does not work unless you treat with the full dose. I have never seen a fish with a screwed up stomach from copper. It is true that an overdose will kill a fish fairly quickly but even then the fish will get sores on his skin.
As I said, most fish in stores are in copper continousely. They have to be because they are always introducing new fish. They may not tell you but I know the wholesalers in NY always use copper.

 

[luke33]

From the first comment. I would just like to say that imo, the tank has ick, but being a large full reef tank with corals, i feel your fish are very healthy and have built an immunity against ick. I also think that your corals help to feed on any ick in your tank, and if you have cleaners, they maintain the ick population. It works great in some cases. I'm sure you have a great setup and feed your fish a variety of food. I would be curious as to what type of fish you have as well. Hypo is my preferred treatment, and copper if bad enough. I qt for 4 weeks but don't qt my LR or corals, don't need two qt's set up. I think its cool to treat be able to run a tank with ick, and not have any infections, but the problem is any new fish you have will always come down with it until he builds up his immune system.