Lets talk about Vodka/sugar dosing

[OnlyCrimson]

On my system I was able to tell after 3 or 4 days.

 

[MammothReefer]

visually or on test kits??

 

[MammothReefer]

weee.. so I tested my tank today.. I just couldn't go on visual alone.. so after 1 week of vodka dosing.. phosphate 0 - 0.1 ..nitrates. (hahah) OFF THE CHARTS.. The test kit I used stopped @ 16ppm.. it was obviously way passed that. I'm guessing I have between 20-30ppm of nitrate in my tank atm.... I think I'm going to have to up my Water Changes as well, until I can at least get my Nitrates on a testable level....

 

[stony_corals]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12646163#post12646163 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MammothReefer
weee.. so I tested my tank today.. I just couldn't go on visual alone.. so after 1 week of vodka dosing.. phosphate 0 - 0.1 ..nitrates. (hahah) OFF THE CHARTS.. The test kit I used stopped @ 16ppm.. it was obviously way passed that. I'm guessing I have between 20-30ppm of nitrate in my tank atm.... I think I'm going to have to up my Water Changes as well, until I can at least get my Nitrates on a testable level....

Your initial dosing level sounds right. I wouldn't wait a week to increase. I'd double dosage after 4 days. I'd stop using GFO though, you won't need it the bacteria will take care of that!! You don't want to reduce nutrients too fast. I tend to start seeing a reduction in week two ( but each tank is different).

 

[MammothReefer]

Why would i want to stop using GFO, the last thing I want it my Phosphates to start going up while I'm waiting for the VODKA to start working. Either way, I'm not really in a hurry I'd like to decrease as much as I can via a weekly water change for the next month (then back down to bi-weekly ect, and slowly let the vodka do it's thing.

 

[Kolognekoral]

In an ULNS a gfo is counter-productive, as it will compete with the bacterial strains that are trying to establish themselves. Essentially, nutrients, such as carbon, PO4 and NO3 are joined in a chain of usage, known as the Redfield Ratios; 106C:16N:1P. Using a gfo will upset this ratio.

One needs patience and a bit of understanding to establish a ULNS.

 

[MammothReefer]

Alright Progress (I think) So I finally up'd it to about 10ml, for the past 4 days, and wow.. my skimmer has really started to kick into over drive. I've been emptying my BM250 Cup every other day... ..and that cup is huge. I haven't seen any evidence in the tank (algae isn't dying), or on a test kit yet.. but I'm hoping this is the first stage to the vodka starting to work. I'm going to try to kick start my bacteria this next week by doing a water change with Natural Sea water.. My goal is to bring back about 40 gallons from Scripps in San Diego on Monday... I'm also tempted to bring my 250 gallon jug on my snowmobile trailer..but the gas costs of lugging a few thousand pounds of water 400 miles north don't sound like something I want to incur.

As far as dosage..
I am a bit reluctant to keep increasing above 10ml at this point in time.. I think I'm going to hold at 10ml for about 2 weeks, and then decide if I want to go to 15ml after the water change.

In regards to GFO. I am also not running GFO..not by choice..but I accidentally broke my Phosban Reactor trying to remove the hose.

 

[Malifluous]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12558503#post12558503 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Genetics
Sugar uptake by Algae in Saltwater

Potential reason why macroalgae still grows with v/s/v addition. Sugar it seems can be uptaken by algae and utilized for growth.

Although I am unable to comment about sugar, I am 100% certain that algae will grow with vodka or vinegar dosing. Here is an abstract.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/r3532097w151g3r6/

Organic sources of carbon such as vinegar and vodka do not require photosynthesis to be used for growth. With vinegar, algae can grow in the dark.

 

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12690859#post12690859 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Malifluous
... algae will grow with vodka ...

No general, blanket statement about how algae in a marine aquarium will utilize ethanol is going to be accurate. The various families of marine algae exhibit sets of metabolic pathways that are too diverse for such a simplification. For example ...

As to the blue-green algae (Spirulina platensis (Nordst.) Geitl.), ethanol is highly toxic and not subjected to cell metabolism.


N. G. Menzyanova (2003) Influence of ethanol on metabolism of algae. Growth dynamics, content of nucleic acids, proteins, and lipids in Chlorella vulgaris Beijer and Spirulina platensis (Nordst.) Geitl. cells, International Journal on Algae, Volume 5, Issue 3.
http://www.edata-center.com/journals/7dd4467e7de5b7ef,3e6db9a71ad3f0f7,774cb23c533534d6.html

Even so, your point that some algae may be able to utilize various carbon sources is well taken ... :thumbsup:



HTH

 

[Zedar]

So far so good with the algae in my tank. Or lack of algae i should say

It seems hair algae is not on the list It died 6 months ago and i havent seen hide nor hair of it (no pun intended) since

 

[Malifluous]

What is the maximum concentration of vodka? I have a 80 gallon, I have reached 2.5 ml / day. Macroalgae is growing fast. Should i continue to increase the volume of vodka? What volume of vodka should I reach for?

 

[Zedar]

It seems every tank is different. You need to keep increasing the dose by .1ml per day till P04 and N03 starts dropping. Then once you reach low nutrient 0 N03 .02 P04 drop the dosage in half and thats your maintenance dosage.

 

[vvolfe1]

Ok, I've been dosing vodka and sugar for around 2 months now. I've also been using vinegar in my kalk for 6 months. Although at first I noticed a reduction in algae in my display it has appeared to have come back more than ever. I have also notices the rate of detritus build up has also increased. The detritus has increased even after feeding less and with a lower fish load.

A few questions I have are. If the bacterial growth takes the nutrient out of the water columb could the rocks be feeding the new algae growth if nuetrients were embeded in the rock?

If the bacteria is being fed to populate in larger numbers and they are actually feeding on phosphates can you truely get an accurate po4 test if it is being consumed as fast as it is being produced.

Has anyone else noticed ph and Alk lower faster since starting this? It seems like to me my alk and ph are consumed by sugar the quickest.
thanks

 

[Genetics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12706546#post12706546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vvolfe1
Ok, I've been dosing vodka and sugar for around 2 months now. I've also been using vinegar in my kalk for 6 months. Although at first I noticed a reduction in algae in my display it has appeared to have come back more than ever. I have also notices the rate of detritus build up has also increased. The detritus has increased even after feeding less and with a lower fish load.

I don't know if I would dose vinegar through the kalk reactor.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12706546#post12706546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vvolfe1
A few questions I have are. If the bacterial growth takes the nutrient out of the water columb could the rocks be feeding the new algae growth if nuetrients were embeded in the rock?

Yes. Rocks can sequester phosphates and nitrates which will leach back into the water once the water has dropped below the concentration within the rocks. It may take weeks to months to remove these.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12706546#post12706546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vvolfe1
If the bacteria is being fed to populate in larger numbers and they are actually feeding on phosphates can you truely get an accurate po4 test if it is being consumed as fast as it is being produced.

Algae is the main component in sequestration of phosphates. Usually you have an algae problem before phosphates become detectable.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12706546#post12706546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vvolfe1
Has anyone else noticed ph and Alk lower faster since starting this? It seems like to me my alk and ph are consumed by sugar the quickest.
thanks

As long as these two stay relatively constant they you should not have a problem with your tank. My alk stays around 7-8, pH between 8.2-8.3. I switched salts to see if this would result in a higher alk but haven't seen any difference yet.

 

[stony_corals]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12706612#post12706612 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Genetics



Algae is the main component in sequestration of phosphates. Usually you have an algae problem before phosphates become detectable.

Bacteria too....

 

[Genetics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12707026#post12707026 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stony_corals
Bacteria too....

Yeah those little guys too. I forget sometimes to be explicit and regurgitate material posted earlier in the same thread.

 

[stony_corals]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12707150#post12707150 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Genetics
Yeah those little guys too. I forget sometimes to be explicit and regurgitate material posted earlier in the same thread.

Yeah I know, it's kinda hard with long threads.... we know what you are thinking though!

 

[melev]

Actually, what would be nice is if someone knowledgeable would write up a nice discussion and submitted it as an article for Reefkeeping. Not only would I read it, I'd probably finally give it a try.

 

[stony_corals]

melev, ygpm...

 

[vvolfe1]

I actually had very little algae and it was just in the overflow. I think what is happening is that the bacteria is exporting nuetrients from my polluted rock. Most of these nuetrients were burried under coraline algae so they just stayed bottled up in the rock.