Lets talk about Vodka/sugar dosing
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vvolfe1
New member
Yeah I actually made this protein skimmer before I started this program to export the bacteria from the system. I think the algae problem has to do more with my rock being so poluted in the past that the rate the nutrients are being released and consumed by the algae leaves less for the skimmer to grab.
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shred5
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12707566#post12707566 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Actually, what would be nice is if someone knowledgeable would write up a nice discussion and submitted it as an article for Reefkeeping. Not only would I read it, I'd probably finally give it a try.
There was one submitted... A guy from Europe had submitted one and they would not run it. It was submitted at the same time Eric had submitted one against and allot of people were screaming censorship.. The huge Vodka thread that started along time ago there is info about it.
Dave
A very, very good link
http://www.nicovita.com.pe/pdf/esp/boletines/bole_0303_01.pdf
I´m sorry, the link is in spanish, I cant translate it...
But you must read it...
try to translate...
The nitrificant bacteries we know are autotrophic (nitrosomonas, nitrobacter, nitrospiras)
Here, talk about heterotrophycs...
and the relation between them...
http://www.nicovita.com.pe/pdf/esp/boletines/bole_0303_01.pdf
I´m sorry, the link is in spanish, I cant translate it...
But you must read it...
try to translate...
The nitrificant bacteries we know are autotrophic (nitrosomonas, nitrobacter, nitrospiras)
Here, talk about heterotrophycs...
and the relation between them...
melev
Well-known member
That was then, this is now, and we have plenty of knowledgeable people here on RC that can put together a good write up. One person has already contacted me via PM, and I have no problem with a few of the regulars in this thread forming a committee to come up with the article together. When threads like this one grow to such lengths, it almost is a necessity that an article be written to get the meaty information out to the most people.
shred5
Premium Member
Jörg Kokott a marine biologist out of Germany,,, Maybe he still has the article and can be contacted.... that thread was longer than this one.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...8714&perpage=25&highlight=vodka&pagenumber=21)
Dave
MammothReefer
Active member
well I had a little bacteria bloom yesterday, accidentally dosed twice in one day.. Water looked a bit white and murker but no ill affect.. today though everything is crystal clear..
Hopefully my new test kits will be here shortly so I can see where i'm at in nitrates, phosphates.
Hopefully my new test kits will be here shortly so I can see where i'm at in nitrates, phosphates.
Carbon Dosing
Carbon Dosing
You go boy!
Certainly one of the most talked about topics on RC as evidenced by the numerous and lengthy threads in almost every forum. I also look forward to more meaty articles in Reefkeeping magazine as my perception is it has been a bit low on the "more substantial" articles these last few months (WADR)?
Great job Mark!
Carbon Dosing
You go boy!
Certainly one of the most talked about topics on RC as evidenced by the numerous and lengthy threads in almost every forum. I also look forward to more meaty articles in Reefkeeping magazine as my perception is it has been a bit low on the "more substantial" articles these last few months (WADR)?
Great job Mark!
melev
Well-known member
Re: Carbon Dosing
Re: Carbon Dosing
I'm not sure what WADR stands for, but you are getting what I have to offer.
If anyone want to write something up, I'm happy to consider it. Reefkeeping Magazine is in its seventh year, and a lot has already been covered. I'm sure some topics could be updated, but the bulk of it is still as valid as when it was written back then.
That being said, don't expect ultra deep articles too often. Too many people have a short attention span and will refuse to read something in depth (we track the magazine'swebsite statistics). I honestly prefer something clear and concise, and easy to read. The most people learn from those articles, and I'd rather help 1000s rather than only a handful.
Re: Carbon Dosing
I'm not sure what WADR stands for, but you are getting what I have to offer.
If anyone want to write something up, I'm happy to consider it. Reefkeeping Magazine is in its seventh year, and a lot has already been covered. I'm sure some topics could be updated, but the bulk of it is still as valid as when it was written back then.That being said, don't expect ultra deep articles too often. Too many people have a short attention span and will refuse to read something in depth (we track the magazine'swebsite statistics). I honestly prefer something clear and concise, and easy to read. The most people learn from those articles, and I'd rather help 1000s rather than only a handful.
With All Due Respect. My response was mostly to your comment of "that was then, this is now" in going back and revisiting topics of interest.
I very much look forward to articles that address frequent questions and topics on RC in a manner that I as a hobbyist with no scientific background can understand (and have the attention span for).
I very much look forward to articles that address frequent questions and topics on RC in a manner that I as a hobbyist with no scientific background can understand (and have the attention span for).
At this time there is still a lot of questions to be answered about this method. The long term success I believe has been shown. But the exact science behind it is still not.
At its core the vodka method is simply supplying ORGANIC carbon to feed bacteria. In the sandbed and live rock denitrifying bacteria reduce nitrate to nitrogen gas. Carbon allows them to do this more effectively. N03 removal.
Free floating bacteria (heterotrophic) also take advantage of this carbon and consume it along with proteins, trace elements, P04 etc.
(This is the reason Zeo users dose K+ iron Iodide etc. to replenish what the bacteria remove.)
With a strong skimmer these bacteria are skimmed out and the P04 and other food stuff is exported with them. P04 removal
Think of it like algae in a refugium. Each time you remove excess macro algae your exporting the P04 N03 with it. This is the same concept only much more efficient.
But unlike algae which gives off oxygen, these bacteria (heterotrophic) consume oxygen, and if gone unchecked can suffocate the tank. So thats the downside. And hence the reason for a good skimmer. The quicker the skimmer removes these bacteria the better.
Zeovit, fauna marin etc use the same concept. But they replace the DSB with a reactor filled with zeolite. It's a more aggressive method.
I think thats a simple explanation. Please feel free to add/correct
At its core the vodka method is simply supplying ORGANIC carbon to feed bacteria. In the sandbed and live rock denitrifying bacteria reduce nitrate to nitrogen gas. Carbon allows them to do this more effectively. N03 removal.
Free floating bacteria (heterotrophic) also take advantage of this carbon and consume it along with proteins, trace elements, P04 etc.
(This is the reason Zeo users dose K+ iron Iodide etc. to replenish what the bacteria remove.)
With a strong skimmer these bacteria are skimmed out and the P04 and other food stuff is exported with them. P04 removal
Think of it like algae in a refugium. Each time you remove excess macro algae your exporting the P04 N03 with it. This is the same concept only much more efficient.
But unlike algae which gives off oxygen, these bacteria (heterotrophic) consume oxygen, and if gone unchecked can suffocate the tank. So thats the downside. And hence the reason for a good skimmer. The quicker the skimmer removes these bacteria the better.
Zeovit, fauna marin etc use the same concept. But they replace the DSB with a reactor filled with zeolite. It's a more aggressive method.
I think thats a simple explanation. Please feel free to add/correct
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MammothReefer
Active member
NOM NOM NOM NOM I have a bunch of that in my sump.
Canarygirl
New member
what is "NOM NOM NOM NOM?"
stony_corals
New member
- what questions do you have? I think what remains is good vs bad bacteria, carbon dosing promotes both. I haven't heard of anyone having any disease issues. But since there are bacteria living on corals themselves, how are the corals impacted by this? What other organisms growth rates are increased by carbon dosing (some report some algae growth).
- long-term... hmmmm... I think the British economist Lord Keynes said it best "... in the long term we're all dead". It seems that many aquarists have a tank up for a few years and then upgrades/downgrades/gets out of the hobby. I think they can be successful with C dosing...
- so then are the bacteria C limited since they are not doing this otherwise... with all the C in the alkalinity system, this may not be the case ( I believe this was EB's commentary).
- why are they free floating bacteria? Is the snot some users report, not attached to some substrate/pumps etc?!? Are they not, or potentially some chemotrophes?
- there is no evidence that bacteria utilize iodine that I've found, if you have some please let me know...
- IMHO Zeovit and the other systems, are different and shouldn't be considered anything but different. ZEO provides the reactor as a means of cultivating bacteria guilds in itself and not the tank. Sure there is a source of carbon, but there are other environmental benefits such as a source of strains to be cultivated, a unique substrate, and decreased flow, etc...
Good post zedar... more to come...
stony_corals
New member
How do you know they aren't competing?!?
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