Lets talk about Vodka/sugar dosing

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My guess is that once all of the locked up N and P are removed from the sand and rocks that the skimmer will settle down. Who knows how long that will take though....for me it was about 3 months :lol:
 
Ya right now i'm not showing any reduction in NP still floating at 20 (as of a few hours ago).. but the skimmer is skimming like a champ.
 
Hmm.. So I had to turn down my skimmer some (overflow issues heh)
but.. I decided to test my N/P again prior to this water change I'm doing today.. and it's still floating around at 20ppm.. I'm starting to wonder how much of my n/p reduction is due to my aggressive Water changes, and how much due to vodka dosing. I'm going to up my dosing to 5ml+ every other day until I hit 0 n and see what happens. (currently @ 40ml a day) I'm also starting to wonder if I need to dose an additional bacteria source to use the vodka/carbon.. If so any recommendations?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12851553#post12851553 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MammothReefer
Hmm.. So I had to turn down my skimmer some (overflow issues heh)
but.. I decided to test my N/P again prior to this water change I'm doing today.. and it's still floating around at 20ppm.. I'm starting to wonder how much of my n/p reduction is due to my aggressive Water changes, and how much due to vodka dosing. I'm going to up my dosing to 5ml+ every other day until I hit 0 n and see what happens. (currently @ 40ml a day) I'm also starting to wonder if I need to dose an additional bacteria source to use the vodka/carbon.. If so any recommendations?
Click to expand...

Hey mammothreefer,

I was looking at your dosing. You are currently at N - 20ppm with 40mL/day of vodka. After sifting through some of the original german references I have a few questions for you. Do you have a DSB?? If so this may explain your lack of N dropping quickly. If not, what percent is the vodka? I use a 20% and add ~8mL/day on a 200gal net water setup. At times even this is too much for my system and I drop to 5mL/day for weeks at a time. 40mL/day does not seem right. I would have to suggest that you start dropping this amount. At 500 gallons with a 20% I would not exceed 40mL/day. If you're at 40% I would back down at 2.5mL/day to a more comfortable level. Your N/P is dropping. I wouldn't push harder but ease up. JMHO.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12854626#post12854626 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Genetics
Hey mammothreefer,

I was looking at your dosing. You are currently at N - 20ppm with 40mL/day of vodka. After sifting through some of the original german references I have a few questions for you. Do you have a DSB?? If so this may explain your lack of N dropping quickly. If not, what percent is the vodka? I use a 20% and add ~8mL/day on a 200gal net water setup. At times even this is too much for my system and I drop to 5mL/day for weeks at a time. 40mL/day does not seem right. I would have to suggest that you start dropping this amount. At 500 gallons with a 20% I would not exceed 40mL/day. If you're at 40% I would back down at 2.5mL/day to a more comfortable level. Your N/P is dropping. I wouldn't push harder but ease up. JMHO.
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Hi Genetics,

I do have a sand bed, it's about 4"-6" depending on where it is in the tank. I'm using Smirnoff which is 80 proof 40%. What are some of the issues with Vodka & DSB?
 
It's not the vodka that's the issue....It's that DSB's are notorious for harboring lots of N and P...so it will take awhile for all of that to leach out of the DSB and LR.

To answer a couple posts back...I use ZEObac as a supplemental bacteria source, others (Zedar) are using an off the shelf Seachem product, still others are using the Prodibio bac supplement. IMO, they will all do the same basic thing....but I would stick to one of the products designed for ULNS instead off the off the shelf "cycling" type products....but again, that's just my opinion :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12855736#post12855736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MammothReefer
Hi Genetics,

I do have a sand bed, it's about 4"-6" depending on where it is in the tank. I'm using Smirnoff which is 80 proof 40%. What are some of the issues with Vodka & DSB?
Click to expand...

I realized you might have a DSB after stating that you hadn't noticed a terrible decrease in your nitrates. At 40mL of 40% you are essentially running a fine line until you crash your system. The reason for this seems to come from multiple reports of continuous upping of vodka with DSB systems. The DSB contains many layers of nitrates/phosphates. It has taken months to get setup properly and vodka addition is (and I have no science for this statement) intervening in the nitrate reduction at a fairly early level. This means that your DSB is slowly working out its nitrates. Over time you will hit a point where the DSB no longer presents nitrates to the bacteria you are producing with the vodka. At this point it will become detrimental. As such, you need to reduce you vodka dosing to get to a sustainable level. For 500 gallons of water you may actually need something like 10mL of 40% Smirnoff/day to maintain low nutrient levels. So I am suggesting that you start reducing your dose instead of increasing to 20mL and if you note a cloudiness in the future cut that in half and measure from there. JMO.
 
hmm what if i just shuffle up my sand bed, i've never been one to let it sit...between my clams my tunzees, and some fish.. i also from time to time just take my glass scraper and wave it over the top of the sand to get a nice detrious cloud in the water colum, and into my sump/skimmer/filter sock, granted thats only the exposed sand areas, and the areas my fish dig.
 
I wouldn't do that!!!!!

a fellow RC'er (sailfintang) stirred up his sand bed when removing it and managed to kill most of the fish and cirals in the tank....probably form the release of hydrogen sulfide that accumulated in the sand bed. If you are wanting to clean out the sand bed, your best bet is to suck the detritus (and any hydrogen sulfide) out during water changes!!!!
 
hmm good point, although I do it from time to time so I don't know how much is built up in there tough to say.. One day I'll get over sand and yank it all out.. (been saying that for like 5 years now)

But back on the vodka note. I think i'm going to stop @ 40ml.. Maybe even step down. I am now down to 15ppm Nitrates.. but it appears the only time I'm getting any nitrate reduction is via water change.. (changed 20% of my water and nitrates dropped 5ppm). I'm wonder if the vodka isn't working correct because I have 0 (testable) phosphates. Thoughts?
 
MammothReefer, how long has your tank been setup with the DSB? Are you logging your vodka dosing, and your nitrate/phosphate levels? Would you mind sharing or PM'ing me?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12865084#post12865084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stony_corals
MammothReefer, how long has your tank been setup with the DSB? Are you logging your vodka dosing, and your nitrate/phosphate levels? Would you mind sharing or PM'ing me?
Click to expand...

I don't mind posting it. My sand bed has been setup since the I moved to this 225 on Sept 23 2006, so about a year and 9 months.

As far as logs but it's all on paper, I can copy down the key days (I test every 3 days or so), I did at some point start writing down how much vodka I was dosing I just don't know when. My phosphates though have been @ undetectable from the start.. but my test kit only goes to (api) .25 and it's less then that. My nitrates started off the chart...(100+) and are now down to 15ppm.

I'll go threw my log and see what I can find afterwork, I also probably have tracked a fair bit in this thread.. I can look back when I made posts.
 
Ok, so it's been up a while, it's not a new tank.... I'd think the DSB to be established in this time frame, I'd think it'd be able to process your NO3. So before dosing vodka, your NO3 was 100ppm with a DSB....(rhetorical question) why isn't your DSB keeping NO3 low? The obvious answer is export isn't working...but why?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12863404#post12863404 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MammothReefer
I'm wonder if the vodka isn't working correct because I have 0 (testable) phosphates. Thoughts?
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This is possible, but you need a lower range phosphate measurement suggest this. The Redfield ratio is around 106:16:1 (C:N:P). So even a phosphate maintained at 0.05 ppm with a daily addition of just 0.05 ppm could accomplish significant nitrate reduction by the vodka method. In other words, reducing nitrate by 1.6 by the vodka method reduces phosphate by just 0.1. Therefore, you could be adding an excess of 0.1 P per day and still be reducing N by 1.6, all while staying under 0.25 P by your test kit. I would think you would need a P of undetectable by photometer, before you could start thinking down the road of P limitation. JMO
 
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Anyone have any problems with Monti's while dosing vodka? I am having problems with Monti's losing their flesh. Started with my superman about 2 weeks ago, and now is effecting my danea's, Setosa, Undata, and digi's. Only acro I seem to be having a problem with is one of my blue torts. My caps seem to be fine as of now. The only other thing I can relate this to is an adjustment I made in my alkalinity. It was lower then I like at 7 dkh and I raised it to 10 dkh in about 4 days (by accident). Nothing else I can think of has changed with my system.
tom
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12869694#post12869694 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kmckay
The Redfield ratio is around 106:16:1 (C:N:P).
Click to expand...

So, if I am correct on this and I have a build up of phosphates will I need to increase my nitrates to get my phosphates to lower?

I stated before I had an increase in algae when I started this method. Almost all the hair algae is gone now.
 
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