leucokranos or thiellei?

[isseym328]

Hello all,

I picked up a clown today that I think might be a thiellei, but I'm not 100% sure. The characteristics are there. The body is more orange then the cap I have in the same tank. The body is shaped a little differently (more elongated). There is the normal full cap plus a full white line going from the cap to near the end of the tail. I talked to the owner of the lfs and he said it was picked up near Australia since that shipment also included corals from there. So from what I read thiellei is from philippines and leucs from png. They're both in the same body of water although png is closer.

I will try to get a pic later tonight when lights are on. From what I have described what do you guys think?

 

[traveller7]

Tough to say.

Striping changes so much with WC leuc's it is silly and the coloration tends to be more orange then the ones we have in captivity longer term.

We can cross our fingers for you though

 

[phender]

In the ones I have seen the body of thiellei isn't just longer, it is also rounder in cross section more like an ocellaris. So if you are looking straight on it looks more like this ( ) while a leuc looks more like this ().

The pattern of the white doesn't really mean much. The pattern on a luec can be any mix between a skunk and chrysopterus pattern.

Looking forward to a picture!

 

[isseym328]

Ok here's a pic. It's next to a leuk as well. Let me know what you guys think!

 

[isseym328]

 

[Project Reef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13413616#post13413616 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by isseym328
Ok here's a pic. It's next to a leuk as well. Let me know what you guys think!

Hah, the expression on the face of the little leuk looks to be one of uttershock as if his life is in shambles after losing big on the stock market. I know, I know, I'm weird.

If that is not a thiellei, it doesn't matter. I think it's one of the, if not THE, coolest 'cap' clown I've ever seen.

 

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13416460#post13416460 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Project Reef
If that is not a thiellei, it doesn't matter. I think it's one of the, if not THE, coolest 'cap' clown I've ever seen.

Fairly certain you have seen more caps then I, but I agree, that is a cherry specimen :>)

 

[isseym328]

Yeah whether it's a cap/thei it certainly is a unique looking fish. However i want to get it id so that I know if i should pair it with the cap in the background or not. I have another cap back at my parent's place that i have been waiting to move over to this tank for pairing.

So can anyone id this specimen 100 percent?

 

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13416657#post13416657 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by isseym328
So can anyone id this specimen 100 percent?

Not based on a sample of pictures.

You'll need precise collection information, close ups, and frankly a good guess. Once you get out of the holotypes, most IDs are experienced guesses. Even more so with a suspected hybrid.

The one piece that looks fairly clear, A. sandaracinos is in there somewhere and quite strongly.

I'd consider it a Cap.

 

[isseym328]

Ok got a better pic of the clown while it's sleeping

 

[isseym328]

Other pics of theillei i've found on the web. One of them is from a fellow reefer on the board. Some of these pics def look like my specimen.

 

[isseym328]

In that last pic it was posted by blface on this board. His/her thiellei looks identical to mine.

 

[phender]

I'm afraid its all about collection location for !00% ID.

If it had a black border around its headbar I would say thiellei, but just because it doesn't seem to doesn't mean its not one. The circular curve of the head bar also makes me lean towards thiellei, but I can't be sure. Like Scott said, when you are dealing with hybrids that have an infinite variety of color patterns it is almost impossible. Does the Fautin/Allen book have fin ray counts on the two "species"? If not, I think I have a book that has counts for leucs, but I don't think it has thiellei.

 

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13416936#post13416936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by isseym328
In that last pic it was posted by blface on this board. His/her thiellei looks identical to mine.

And the ID of any as "thiellei" is going to be documented in what fashion?

Call your fish whatever you like, nobody is going to be able to counter it with 100% facts unless you can conclusively track origin.

You might get fry that look like contributing grandparents if you breed it though

Bottomline, enjoy your fish it is a stunner

 

[MorandiWine]

First of all ..... NICE FISH!

Second ...... GOOD GRAB!

I too am not 100% sure what it is other than really nice and clean.

Is it just me or do all the A. thielli look like ocellaris with bad misbars?? Dont know if I buy the whole hybrid thing or not. Has anyone done any type of genetic study to try and get a definative answer about the hybrid non hybrid question?

Again .... nice fish!

tyler

 

[isseym328]

Thanks! The orange of the body just amazes me. Like you when I first saw it I thought it was ocellaris or percula with a cap. Whether it's leuc or thie I hope it stays healthy in my tank and gets along with my other cap and tang!

 

[isseym328]

Lights just turned on so i can take a closer look. The headbar is outlined in black for sure. I think the only thing now is to figure out where this fish was caught. Pretty fun trying to figure out if she is a leuc or thiellei. =)

 

[isseym328]

Talked to more people and it looks like more and more that this is a thiellei. now i'm wondering what i should do with the two caps that i have. should i pair the theiellei up with one of the caps?

 

[ian20]

how big are your your caps I would try to pair it up with a larger cap to try to keep it a male if its not already a female and try to find another thiellei to pair it up with witch might be impossible but if its a male at least any other thiellei will do.

 

[WDLV]

Ditch the orange color and forget what you hear about collection points. Both are unreliable.
Look at body plan and the white saddle just in front of the caudal fin. That is your indicator. If you have a distinct border in this marking it is a thiellei. If it is faded it is a leucokranos.

I have studdied and compared these two fish at nausium. I own five leucs and one thiellei. They are similar, but once you've seen them side by side they are as different as night and day.

In case it's not clear yet, yours IS a thiellei. Good find and good luck!



As for pairing, I would pair it with an ocellaris. That will give you the highest probability of getting offspring. If and when you get the offspring you can pair the most ocellaris looking offspring with A. sandaracinos and the more sandaracinos looking offspring with ocellaris. Or you could even inbreed them using the same idea. This will yield the highest probability of a consistant color pattern. After that you're in the money!