Levamisole In-Tank Treatment for AEFW
- Thread starter James404
- Start date
cato
New England
OK so I siphoned out most of what appeared to be "dead stuff". Just for kicks n giggles I decided to put a 4" bristle worm a 2" bristle worm and a mini brittle star into a container of fresh mixed salt water I had ready for a water change following dosing and guess what... within 15 mins the seemingly dead stuff was moving again. Seems it really wasn't dead but temporarily paralyzed/stunned.
Gotta say I am quickly losing hope with this protocol. Most of my fish are still in hiding which is not typical. I'm wondering if the necessary dose of Levi needed to kill things is so high it would also kill my fish and I'm not willing to go to that extreme. No doubt the dose I used stuns stuff but I'm not convinced it kills stuff. One can easily put an extremely high dose into a container to dip corals and stun the AEFW enough to remove them from the host easily and then put the host coral back into good water quickly enough to prevent death of the coral.
At this point I'm skeptical at best.
Gotta say I am quickly losing hope with this protocol. Most of my fish are still in hiding which is not typical. I'm wondering if the necessary dose of Levi needed to kill things is so high it would also kill my fish and I'm not willing to go to that extreme. No doubt the dose I used stuns stuff but I'm not convinced it kills stuff. One can easily put an extremely high dose into a container to dip corals and stun the AEFW enough to remove them from the host easily and then put the host coral back into good water quickly enough to prevent death of the coral.
At this point I'm skeptical at best.
James404
I <3 Acros
Interesting, I too noticed that some animals appeared to be "stunned", I noticed this on my Serpent StarFish. I would like to see the same test done on an actual AEFW though. I think a good test would be to get an AEFW placed in a gallon of tank water, and see at how much Prohibit does it take to kill one of them. When I receive my product, hopefully I can try this.
jcolletteiii
New member
So, I take the silence as a 'no'?
cato
New England
Agree, but my question is can we find the correct dose that kills the things we don't want (AEFW) while still allowing the things we do want to live without being terminally harmed in the process?
rtbm
Member
That is the million dollar question my friend
jcolletteiii
New member
Hmmm. It might be useful to compare the dosing schedule/regimen of those who have used this drug for red planaria, along with the dosing data from the person who did in-tank experiments that killed corals. That will at the very least give us an upper threshold, and may give us some idea of how to adjust the dosage.
Also, I'm wondering if Levasole (Levamisole phosphate) might be somehow easier to absorb by the target organism than Levamisole HCl. I can't remember my atomic and ionic radii, but perhaps the PO4 molecule is smaller than the HCl, or the PO4 is taken up more readily by organisms? I dunno, perhaps the Levamisole completely dissociates from the molecule upon hydration?
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jcolletteiii
New member
In looking for the mechanisms/chemical changes brough about by hydration, I stumbled across this article -> http://www.loaches.com/disease-treatment/levamisole-hydrochloride-1
Interesting excerpt, and my experiment seems to indicate there may be something to this. See below in bold red.
"How does Levamisole HCL work as an antiparasitic agent?
Levamisole HCL is absorbed through the gut, can also be absorbed through the skin and is distributed throughout the body [of a fish]. Levamisole affects the neurotransmitters and paralyzes the worm (spastic paralysis). The fish then passes the inactive worms. Good gravel vacuuming is advised after treatment to remove the paralyzed (but still live) worms. It is not ovicidal, which means it will not affect eggs already present, but it will affect the larval stage of the worm. To ensure complete eradication of the parasite treat again after remaining eggs have hatched."
I have witnessed the spastic paralysis, and an apparently dead worm 'come back to life' after I changed the treatment water.
Interesting excerpt, and my experiment seems to indicate there may be something to this. See below in bold red.
"How does Levamisole HCL work as an antiparasitic agent?
Levamisole HCL is absorbed through the gut, can also be absorbed through the skin and is distributed throughout the body [of a fish]. Levamisole affects the neurotransmitters and paralyzes the worm (spastic paralysis). The fish then passes the inactive worms. Good gravel vacuuming is advised after treatment to remove the paralyzed (but still live) worms. It is not ovicidal, which means it will not affect eggs already present, but it will affect the larval stage of the worm. To ensure complete eradication of the parasite treat again after remaining eggs have hatched."
I have witnessed the spastic paralysis, and an apparently dead worm 'come back to life' after I changed the treatment water.
clowndude
New member
I have a experiment if anybody can find a flatworm. This will prove that theory.
Take out a flatworm put it in a glass or budget with the proper dose of levamisole. Then after treatment of 6 hours, completely change the water back with regular untreated tank water. See if the flatworm comes back to life. This will tell us if the flatworm is really dying or not. If I could find a flatworm I would try it, but I haven't seen one.
Take out a flatworm put it in a glass or budget with the proper dose of levamisole. Then after treatment of 6 hours, completely change the water back with regular untreated tank water. See if the flatworm comes back to life. This will tell us if the flatworm is really dying or not. If I could find a flatworm I would try it, but I haven't seen one.
Atomikk
SPS OG
Or better yet, find the lethal dose for the Levamisole where the pest is killed while keeping the coral as much happy as before.
Thank you for starting the AEFW thread. After reading the thread and seeing the pictures, I believe I have them in my system. I began by dipping the individual pieces in Revive and TM Coral Cure and saw a couple of them fall off and saw their eggs.
I'll order some Prohibit today and a buy a digital scale.
Please confirm the amount to use for a 120g total water volume.
5/300x120g= 2.0grams
I'll take out as many pieces as I can to individually inspect and dipp.
I'll order some Prohibit today and a buy a digital scale.
Please confirm the amount to use for a 120g total water volume.
5/300x120g= 2.0grams
I'll take out as many pieces as I can to individually inspect and dipp.
I just ordered Prohibit from www.americanlivestock.com for $18.75 plus $7.00 for shipping/handling. Total of $25.75.
rtbm
Member
This is a great starting point. Be as precise as you can be and record all data and observations. We need to really find out if this stuff works at all. I swear if i had visible flatworms I could test on I would be. I have found plenty of dead ones in my dip water for new arrivals but so far none actually in my QT. Of this I am glad but until I get more infected coral I am pretty useless in this phase of the experiment. And please don't offer to send me any::uhoh2:.
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