LFS vs Online stores (Live Aquaria/Bluzoo/etc)

jubjub

New member
I'm getting kind of sick with the survival rates of the fish from all my LFS's, even though there is quite a few of them around me. in the past 2 months i've gotten

10chromis (5 in my 100gal and 5 in my 75gal) only 3 total survied more then a week.....
1 lawn mower blenny didnt survive the night in qt.....
1 lawn mower blenny 3days and seems ok.....
2 bannerfish died in 3days bought them as a pair were both eating at the store. -read these are quite hardy.
1 klien butterfly seems healthy still...
1 colony of peach milli...RTN'd over night
numberous peppermint shrimp..

am i the only one that has this kind of bad luck? these were from different fish stores in sacramento area.

im really tempted to start doing the live aquaria/bluezoo/etc stores that offer a 14day guarantee on the fish/corals... has this really happened anyone else (getting frustrated at the LFS's)?
 
honestly to have that kind of rate on dead fish i would look into your water parameters. Have you had ammonia spikes?, nitrite or nitrate issues? how about your salinity levels? what are all of these and how often do you test?

understand that some fish from some stores just do this but depends on who you go them from and what their salinity levels were as opposed to yours. there is a few different reasons that this may be happening.
 
Jubjub, you've been around a while so I assume you have a good routine for acclimating? Share it with us, maybe there's a hidden problem?
 
well....but these were in 2 separate tanks

ammonia = 0
nitrates = 5-10'ish or so run a RDSB on both tanks....
salinity is 1.024-1.025

i test about every week or two i have other fish that have not had issues with....i drip acclimate for around 1.5hrs.. all other fish seem fat and healthy, havent changed my routine or done anything different..im really baffled

its not like im overstocked imo
100gal tank i have
1-foxface
2-clarkii
1-flame angel
1-lawnmower blenny
1-purple tang
3-chromis

75gal tank
2 false percs
1 klien
2 dead bannerfish
 
I would think fish from a local store would be more likely to survive than one put through shipping. Maybe it has something to do with your tank or acclimation process?
 
Maybe you need to be testing their water and not your own. That might give you some insight into how to best acclimate the fish. IMO buying fish from the lfs is better bc you can see the fish in person and watch it's behavior. You can also know what it's eating and what it's not eating. A photo is only a snapshot of the fish/coral. I prefer to buy what I can in person. +1 for lfs

The online retailer do have a lot more customers so they can bring in specialized livestock; but from your stocking lists and such I don't get the idea that online is for you.
 
I have great success with LA as well. But, I have one LFS that generally has great survival rates. It is the only place I will buy, as the one other LFS renders nearly 100% death.
 
Agree. I've had better luck buying from LA DD than from a LFS. They just don't get in healthy fish and don't maintain their tanks well. I've never seen them do WC.
 
I would think fish from a local store would be more likely to survive than one put through shipping. Maybe it has something to do with your tank or acclimation process?

how do you think it gets to the LFS, shipped. It gets put in a new tank at the LFS and is sometimes sold that same day. so the fish is prob under a lot of stress.

buying from DD it's quarantined for like 2 weeks. Shipped overnight, one new tank, not as much stress.

That being said i know at least one LFS that wont sell stressed looking fish and actually has a QT system to see how it does before they sell it.
 
I have to say i buy from both LFS and online. I live in SE Indiana and the 2 closest fish stores are a good 45min to 1hr (one way) depending on traffic. I have only bought online from liveaquaria.com, but i am very impressed with them.

There are 2 not so local FS. One called World of Pets is amazing. The employees know their stuff, and if they don't they will get another employee who does. They are very kind and helpful. They have a great selection of livestock and a better selection of corals at decent prices. They're tanks always look great. 2 years of shopping there and i have only seen 3 or 4 fish TOTAL that didn't look good. i believe they're policy is 5 or 7 days.

the other is a Jack's chain. Don't get me wrong, I have seen Jack's chains that were decent, but the one here is crap. The employees have no idea what they're doing or what fish is what. If you want to know the price of a fish, you have to tell them what it's called otherwise they won't know. The tanks normally look crappy. I have seen very few fish in good condition there. almost every time i go there, there is a dead or dying fish in one of the tanks along with dead inverts. last time my friend and i were there a linkia star was disinigrating because it had sat in the tank dead so long. they only have a 3 day guarantee. needless to say i don't buy from there.

the onling store i buy from is liveaquaria.com. the company is owned by two vets. i have to say i am very impressed with them. they quarantine everything very well. back in 08 i attended their "Docters Foster and Smith Liveaquaria.com Coral Conference and Frag Swap". while there i got to tour their facilities in wisconsin, and i was blown away. they take pride in what they're doing and think of the animals, not themselves. they also have a 14 day guarantee, and some of their aquacultured stuff has a 30 day guarantee. i love doing business with them. they are polite and quickly fix any problems. i highly guarantee them.

if you ever get a chance to tour their facilities, do it. it was amazing.
 
to be honest to the person who brought up testing their water that does make me curious to be honest.

i realize that chromis are inhieretly going to kill each other but i wouldnt suspect a 30% survival rate either(the 3 small ones ganged up on the one big one killed him so ugh) either way there's probably a total of 10LFS with in a hour drive from me. to be honest thats just depressing that im considering going to live aquaria/bluezoo.

im going to give LA a shot next time granted im happy that these weren't like 100$ fish or anything but the little stuff adds up after a while. i cant speak for all of you but probably atleast in the 300$+ range of fish i've had over 2-3years that havent survived more then 1 month.

(sorry on a side note if i sound grumpy, having 2 bannerfish which my g/f really wanted in her tank and her complaining to you about it, and sitting at the DMV for 3.5hrs can make anyone grumpy)
 
One of the problems is that you are buying Indo(from bulk Phillipine suppliers) fish & they have a poor survival rate regardless who you buy from.

Local fish stores that have good connections with suppliers & have fish available from all areas of the world will probably have quality fish. There are at least 3 LFS I know of that get quality livestock. A lot of these LFS have been or are RC sponsors.

There were also two LFS near me that have since gone out of business over the years that had top notch fish. It really depends on if you're lucky enough to have a good quality Saltwater only store near you. Most that just specialize in only saltwater will be good or they won't be in business long.

You may have to wait a long time for the fish you want to show up on DD. Other than Divers Den specifically, I don't believe any online retailer is any better than a good saltwater only LFS.
 
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I order all my fish from LA ..great customer service ...14 day guarantee ...if item dies you just call and they give a refund no questions asked...
 
I am starting to buy all my fish online. I am tired of lfs always looking to DFS for pricing fish and corals, and then doing none of the guarantee's or fish prep that they do. I hear from them "You wont get it cheaper on LA" by these stores, But i say i also wont get the customer service i get from them either.
Note to LFS if you want to charge LA prices treat your customers like LA does. Don't blame them for stepping up the bar.
 
Just do avoid the flames I may recieve. Petco.com does not handle their livestock. They simply have fished dropshipped from the same wholesalers in LA that most OFS use. Please do not flame me for recommending Petco.com unless you are familiar with the major differences between their online service and their retail stores. I do not endorse buying livestock from a Petco store in anyway shape or form.
 
LFS vs Online. Well, where do you think both get their fish from? Wholesalers. Which get multiple shipments from the various reefs throughout the week, but generally Sun-Wed most flights come in. From there they are unpacked by workers (low paid and sometime undocumented workers - nothing short of how produce gets to your table).

Some species are put in 20-30 gl holding tanks in multiples; others are put in individual 4"x4" cubicles. Corals are usually put in runways by species. They are fed mysis/brine...tangs usually have stalks of lettuce in their tanks. The dead are eventually removed throughout the day; the dying left to do just that.

So, if your LFS is close to a wholesaler portal then they most likely pick their own fish because the alternative is for the workers to fill (pick) the online retailers order via their own wholesaler online order...duh! They don't see the fish they are buying at wholesale to sell to you at retail...and thus I suspect they have a much higher mortality rate.

There are so many fish and corals at the wholesalers that are in a state of illness. No LFS that is hand-picking their fish are going to take a chance on a fish that is showing signs of stress...not in this economy. So think about it...where do they go? Do you think the wholesaler is going to take the whole hit and send only the best of their stock to the online retailers? And that's assuming that you believe "management" is quality checking those outbound orders. No, they hand a worker a pick sheet and he nets, bags and packs.

I think if more hobbyists were to have a chance to tour the wholesaler facilities and see first hand how many unhealthy specimens are housed after the flight from the reef, then they might start thinking about their ethical responsibility in this industry/hobby. To keep a reef you should understand that for every one healthy fish or coral you have that dozens if not hundreds died due to poor catch procedures or shipment stress. IMHO, you have a responsibility to educate yourself so your one fish or coral not only survives, but thrives in your tank...and to aquaculture or support those efforts where they exist.

When I go with my LFS owner to the wholesaler to pick her inventory I see all the local LFS competition, plus a few local based "online retailers" picking their own stock. Then I see the pickers packing shipments for some of those bigger name online retailers...is that worker concerned about the crap on a fin or the cloudy eye before he bags? - I doubt it.

Bottom line...the fish all come from the same local wholesalers...there is no magical place with perfect conditions...most of these places are hot, stinky and have terrible lighting. But at least I know the owner of my LFS goes to great lengths to care for her inventory once they hit the shop and to inform her clients of how long they've been in stock. And yes, sometimes the fish look good, but within the week the whole lot may die off with that particular species. Is it the LFS's water or acclimation process since everything else is fine? Or is it collection or shipment stress/procedures at the wholesalers?

Before you buy livestock you should not only test your water, but ask the LFS what salinity, Ph and temp. their stock is housed in. I see it countless times...people coming in for that pretty purple fish and talking about how all their other fish have been fine for years and their water is "where it should be." But test their water and the salinity is at 1.028, Ph at 7.8 and I dare say their temp is probably different (so how do they acclimate). The LFS on the other hand is housing at 1.021, Ph 8.3, temp at 77...they work to keep their tanks stable by testing weekly...because they have thousands of dollars of inventory at any given time...losing that at any rate could wipe them out of business.

Lastly, when your pump breaks at 6pm on any given day I seriously doubt you are trying to get a hold of Marine Depot or Drs Foster & Smith for immediate help. If LFS stores continue to disappear, then this hobby will begin to change for the worse in my opinion.
 
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