light for fuge

[codydemmel4]

Okay so I have had 2 of the 10W on my fuge for around 2 weeks.

The cheato has not grown at all really and it is actually starting to look worse then when I just had a small LED light on it from a HOB fuge.

Do I maybe have too much light on it? Or not enough flow? I have around 300 gph going through my fuge.

I have only had the fuge going for around 2 weeks:

 

[codydemmel4]

anyone have any suggestions?

 

[d2mini]

Have you seen this thread?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2463897
From post #15 is where it gets interesting.
The amount of growth in 2-3 weeks time has been insannnnne.

 

[slief]

Okay so I have had 2 of the 10W on my fuge for around 2 weeks.

The cheato has not grown at all really and it is actually starting to look worse then when I just had a small LED light on it from a HOB fuge.

Do I maybe have too much light on it? Or not enough flow? I have around 300 gph going through my fuge.

I have only had the fuge going for around 2 weeks:

I've had great luck with these lights and my chaeto doubles in mass every week or two when my nutrient levels are higher. My guess is your issue has nothing to do with the lights but instead more to do with a lack of nutrients to feed the chaeto. When I first started with chaeto years back, I had a relatively low bio load and couldn't grow the stuff to save my life. It just deteriorated. I've found the stuff grows much better when my PO4 levels are higher and when I am feeding more. When my PO4 levels are low after PO4 treatment, the chaeto doesn't grow nearly as fast and can even seem to stop growing completely for a while.

Also, since you had a really weak light, it's possible that the new light is shocking the chaeto since you didn't acclimate the stuff to the new light. While I don't think that is the case, these lights are fairly powerful and given how close you have them with nothing between the lights and the chaeto but egg crate, there isn't much there to diffuse the new light. Having said that, I still lean towards nutrients as chaeto needs stuff to feed on to fuel it's growth.

 

[codydemmel4]

Have you seen this thread?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2463897
From post #15 is where it gets interesting.
The amount of growth in 2-3 weeks time has been insannnnne.

That really is insane, mine like sinks to the bottom and never tumbles.

Is this because it is dying?

 

[codydemmel4]

I've had great luck with these lights and my chaeto doubles in mass every week or two when my nutrient levels are higher. My guess is your issue has nothing to do with the lights but instead more to do with a lack of nutrients to feed the chaeto. When I first started with chaeto years back, I had a relatively low bio load and couldn't grow the stuff to save my life. It just deteriorated. I've found the stuff grows much better when my PO4 levels are higher and when I am feeding more. When my PO4 levels are low after PO4 treatment, the chaeto doesn't grow nearly as fast and can even seem to stop growing completely for a while.

Also, since you had a really weak light, it's possible that the new light is shocking the chaeto since you didn't acclimate the stuff to the new light. While I don't think that is the case, these lights are fairly powerful and given how close you have them with nothing between the lights and the chaeto but egg crate, there isn't much there to diffuse the new light. Having said that, I still lean towards nutrients as chaeto needs stuff to feed on to fuel it's growth.

Thank you! Yeah I know youve had great success and I believe they are great lights for this. It does give off a lot of light, I am just wondering what I am doing wrong?

It also looks like there is brown/purple algae in my sump now that I didnt have before.

 

[slief]

Not sure what the purple algae is. I would guess cotton candy algae or some sort of hair algae which is common in refugiums. Add a couple mexican turbo snails for that. I don't think you are doing anything wrong. I just think your system has low nutrients. How large and how old is the tank and what do you have in it as far as fish? Have you tested your PO4 recently? I dug though your history to see if I could find that info out. I also see that you recently started using GFO or some phosphate media. Have you tested your Po4 lately? My chaeto doesn't tumble so I go in once a week and rotate it and spread it out by pulling it apart with my fingers a bit so it has more surface area for the light.

 

[codydemmel4]

Not sure what the purple algae is. I would guess cotton candy algae or some sort of hair algae which is common in refugiums. Add a couple mexican turbo snails for that. I don't think you are doing anything wrong. I just think your system has low nutrients. How large and how old is the tank and what do you have in it as far as fish? Have you tested your PO4 recently? I dug though your history to see if I could find that info out. I also see that you recently started using GFO or some phosphate media. Have you tested your Po4 lately?

I dont have a low bioload at all and I am going to start feeding my corals once I get my alk and Calc under control, just bought a dosing pump.

My tank has been set up for over a year now. I have 2 blue reef chromis, 1 green mandarin which is thriving so far and fat, 1 yellow eye kole tang and 2 clownfish.

I am going to test my Phosphates when I get home from work today so I will see where they are at, however I really dont think they are going to be that low. Maybe I have too many nutrients?

 

[slief]

I dont have a low bioload at all and I am going to start feeding my corals once I get my alk and Calc under control, just bought a dosing pump.

My tank has been set up for over a year now. I have 2 blue reef chromis, 1 green mandarin which is thriving so far and fat, 1 yellow eye kole tang and 2 clownfish.

I am going to test my Phosphates when I get home from work today so I will see where they are at, however I really dont think they are going to be that low. Maybe I have too many nutrients?

How large is the tank? Given the fish you mention, I think your bio load is much lower than you realize. It doesn't take much light to grow chaeto but it does take nutrients.

 

[d2mini]

That really is insane, mine like sinks to the bottom and never tumbles.

Is this because it is dying?

Flow makes it tumble.
I have a spray bar at the top shooting the water across and that is creating a gyre in the tank.

My tank was a rebuild. New sand, new water but all the old rock and livestock. Only running for a couple weeks when I added the fuge.
I had no nitrates registering on the test kit when I put the cheato in, and still have no nitrates.
I could never grow cheato before, either.
IMHO, the results you see is all about that HPS bulb, and the tumble is making sure that the entire ball is getting even access to the light. And keeping it from getting too dense, blocking light to the inner areas.
I can't explain it any other way.
But as with everything in this hobby, YMMV.

 

[codydemmel4]

How large is the tank? Given the fish you mention, I think your bio load is much lower than you realize. It doesn't take much light to grow chaeto but it does take nutrients.

Tank is only 55 gallons with a 30 gallon sump, the whole system is probably 75 gallons.

I will take a test on my PO4 when I get home.

 

[codydemmel4]

Flow makes it tumble.
I have a spray bar at the top shooting the water across and that is creating a gyre in the tank.

My tank was a rebuild. New sand, new water but all the old rock and livestock. Only running for a couple weeks when I added the fuge.
I had no nitrates registering on the test kit when I put the cheato in, and still have no nitrates.
I could never grow cheato before, either.
IMHO, the results you see is all about that HPS bulb, and the tumble is making sure that the entire ball is getting even access to the light. And keeping it from getting too dense, blocking light to the inner areas.
I can't explain it any other way.
But as with everything in this hobby, YMMV.

Yeah your cheato is growing insane, I am very jealous of that. I would not near as large as a light thought and I honestly think the lights I have now that Slief suggested should be good enough to support and grow cheato good. I just am wondering if I am doing something wrong, maybe the light is too low?

I just figure if I didnt have any nutrients that I wouldnt be getting alage like you can see in the photo right by the cheato.

 

[slief]

Yeah your cheato is growing insane, I am very jealous of that. I would not near as large as a light thought and I honestly think the lights I have now that Slief suggested should be good enough to support and grow cheato good. I just am wondering if I am doing something wrong, maybe the light is too low?

I just figure if I didn't have any nutrients that I wouldn't be getting algae like you can see in the photo right by the cheato.

That's a different type of algae and looks like a turf algae. I wouldn't base your assumptions on turf algae growth as it doesn't need as much nutrient to grow given it's size and it will can easily out compete the chaeto in a low nutrient environment. If I were a betting man, I would bet that your tank has lower nutrients than you realize.

 

[codydemmel4]

That's a different type of algae and looks like a turf algae. I wouldn't base your assumptions on turf algae growth as it doesn't need as much nutrient to grow given it's size and it will can easily out compete the chaeto in a low nutrient environment. If I were a betting man, I would bet that your tank has lower nutrients than you realize.

So I should remove this algae tonight?

I am definitely testing my phosphates tonight and I will see what they come back as.

Is it maybe that the light is too low? I figured it definitely wouldnt be strong eniugh to burn the cheato so I lowered it so it would be more powerful since I did not see any growth in the 2 weeks I had it going in my sump.

 

[slief]

So I should remove this algae tonight?

I am definitely testing my phosphates tonight and I will see what they come back as.

Is it maybe that the light is too low? I figured it definitely wouldnt be strong eniugh to burn the cheato so I lowered it so it would be more powerful since I did not see any growth in the 2 weeks I had it going in my sump.

I don't think you need to remove that algae but it's wouldn't hurt as you will be exporting nutrients by doing so. As for the lights being too close to the chaeto, I don't think that is an issue. You could grow chaeto with more light or even less light. It's not terribly picky in my experience. If anything, you could place a piece of acrylic between the lights and the egg crate or eliminate the egg crate entirely in favor of some acrylic.

That said, turn your chaeto mass over and spread it apart a bit using your fingers. By spreading it apart you allow more light penetration which helps with growth. That is a big advantage of tumbling chaeto as it allows all sides to get light continuously, thus eliminating the need to manually rotate it.

That said, as I mentioned, I'm certain your issue is a lack of nutrients. 8"-10" worth of fish is a very low load for a 55 gallon display and a 75 gallon system. you couldn't possibly be feeding that small number of fish enough to constitute a high enough bio load to generate much in the way of nutrients. Your corals and what little other algae is growing in your system will most likely consume any of the nutrients ultimately starving the chaeto.

 

[codydemmel4]

I don't think you need to remove that algae but it's wouldn't hurt as you will be exporting nutrients by doing so. As for the lights being too close to the chaeto, I don't think that is an issue. You could grow chaeto with more light or even less light. It's not terribly picky in my experience. If anything, you could place a piece of acrylic between the lights and the egg crate or eliminate the egg crate entirely in favor of some acrylic.

That said, turn your chaeto mass over and spread it apart a bit using your fingers. By spreading it apart you allow more light penetration which helps with growth. That is a big advantage of tumbling chaeto as it allows all sides to get light continuously, thus eliminating the need to manually rotate it.

That said, as I mentioned, I'm certain your issue is a lack of nutrients. 8"-10" worth of fish is a very low load for a 55 gallon display and a 75 gallon system. you couldn't possibly be feeding that small number of fish enough to constitute a high enough bio load to generate much in the way of nutrients. Your corals and what little other algae is growing in your system will most likely consume any of the nutrients ultimately starving the chaeto.

Alright thanks for this! I also am only running the light on the cheato for 12 hours a day, opposite of my DT. Should I run it for 24 hours till I see the growth that I wanted?

I will tear apart the cheato and spread it across my fuge section in my sump.

 

[slief]

Alright thanks for this! I also am only running the light on the cheato for 12 hours a day, opposite of my DT. Should I run it for 24 hours till I see the growth that I wanted?

I will tear apart the cheato and spread it across my fuge section in my sump.

12 hours is fine. Don't tear it completely apart. The idea is widen the mass so it's thinner and light can penetrate further into it, not shred it into pieces.

 

[codydemmel4]

12 hours is fine. Don't tear it completely apart. The idea is widen the mass so it's thinner and light can penetrate further into it, not shred it into pieces.

Okay so I made it pretty thin and you were right, when I test PO4 it was 0. At least no color on the salifert tests.

So I will never be able to grow good cheato, as long as my phosphates are low?

 

[slief]

Okay so I made it pretty thin and you were right, when I test PO4 it was 0. At least no color on the salifert tests.

So I will never be able to grow good cheato, as long as my phosphates are low?

PO4 is one part of the equation and nitrates are another. You don't necessarily need high Po4 levels but you do need adequet nutrient levels for it to grow. I'm sure there are other factors but if both of Po4 and Nitraates are not readable or are barely detectable, you don't have nutrient issues and there won't be much if anything for the chaeto to feed on. FWIW, this is a good problem to have.

The other scenario for those kinds of results are an abundance of nuissance algae which consumes the nutrients causing a low reading. In your case, you don't have algae issues and you don't have much of a load to create nutrient issues. Also keep in mind that most of us grow chaeto and other macro algae to control nutrients that are generally the result of our larger loads and heavy feeding relative to our tank size. You don't have a heavy load let alone an abundance of nutrients so growing chaeto will be difficult to impossible at this stage and also unneeded. As I said, that is a good problem to have. Just leave it be and maybe it will start to grow and if nothing else, perhaps it won't widdle away.

 

[codydemmel4]

PO4 is one part of the equation and nitrates are another. You don't necessarily need high Po4 levels but you do need adequet nutrient levels for it to grow. I'm sure there are other factors but if both of Po4 and Nitraates are not readable or are barely detectable, you don't have nutrient issues and there won't be much if anything for the chaeto to feed on. FWIW, this is a good problem to have.

The other scenario for those kinds of results are an abundance of nuissance algae which consumes the nutrients causing a low reading. In your case, you don't have algae issues and you don't have much of a load to create nutrient issues. Also keep in mind that most of us grow chaeto and other macro algae to control nutrients that are generally the result of our larger loads and heavy feeding relative to our tank size. You don't have a heavy load let alone an abundance of nutrients so growing chaeto will be difficult to impossible at this stage and also unneeded. As I said, that is a good problem to have. Just leave it be and maybe it will start to grow and if nothing else, perhaps it won't widdle away.

Alright thank you!

Yeah I know it is a good problem to have, however I need to have a good pod population for my mandarin and I fear if I do not have a lot of cheato that I am not going to be able to keep up the pod population for my mandarin. He does however eat the baby brine shrimp that I eat through PaulB's feeder that has been working really well.