Punchanello
Member
It's not funny, it's true. [emoji31]Oh, and the darn Aussies. What a bunch of former criminals.I kill me. I'm trying not to troll but this is getting funny.
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Lights... hit me...
- Thread starter Gweeds
- Start date
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Stolireef
Active member
Ooops. Sorry. I was just kidding around.
Punchanello
Member
me too :beer:
Punchanello
Member
What Gweeds initial post requested was recommendations on lighting that could cover a "8'3 x 26" and 26" depth and be good enough for SPS long term".
From what I have read in the thread the answer is t5, MH, expensive LED or cheap LED. He didn't ask for the undisputed champion lighting for an all SPS tank.
After I read this thread and also comments in another thread where I asked about hybrid lighting I went and asked my local LFS who is fast becoming my BFF. He asked me how realistic it was to think that I would successfully navigate the first 3-5 years of a reef tank to the point that I would have a tank with SPS that was exploding with growth to the point it was actually shadowing?....errrr.....not very. In fact, it is more likely I'd have softies and LPS and maybe a few SPS.
Something to think about.
From what I have read in the thread the answer is t5, MH, expensive LED or cheap LED. He didn't ask for the undisputed champion lighting for an all SPS tank.
After I read this thread and also comments in another thread where I asked about hybrid lighting I went and asked my local LFS who is fast becoming my BFF. He asked me how realistic it was to think that I would successfully navigate the first 3-5 years of a reef tank to the point that I would have a tank with SPS that was exploding with growth to the point it was actually shadowing?....errrr.....not very. In fact, it is more likely I'd have softies and LPS and maybe a few SPS.
Something to think about.
ComforablyNumb
New member
The good thing is... all current accepted forms of lighting works quite well. t5/mH/LED. And the light from all come from the same direction..the top. All fixtures scatter the light..mH and t5 with reflectors, LEDS with with either wide or narrow angle lens...and some of the light bounces around, off the glass, etc
Its really almost hard to go wrong if you are putting out enough correct color lumens for your stock.
Its really almost hard to go wrong if you are putting out enough correct color lumens for your stock.
T5 spread is undisputed. To attempt to simplify the technologies by saying it all comes from the same place is deliberately distorting the truth for ones own means.
Light being directed from a 180 degree reflector travels from the back to the front of the tank. A diode wont do it.
ComforablyNumb
New member
What I said is 100% true and you know it.
LEDS scatter thru a wide angle lens, which has no hotspot at all once diffused.
Do you even know a diffuser lens does? It takes the downward light and bends it and blends it. It is thicker on the bottom to take those downwards rays and vastly reduce the ones going down, and vastly increases the rays going sideways/down. Evenly. Scatters it widely to all angles..evenly. Any well designed modern lens will. T5's are spread out over the tank, only difference ...and you can easily scatter multiple leds over any tank..as few or as many as you'd like.
With t5's there is no programing, no changing of color during the day..only intensity. Tanks lit with only t5's have an extraordinary flat appearance vs. single point leds and halides. You must also replace bulbs at $25 bulb ...easily $150 every yr, year in and year out. That adds up quickly whether you want to admit it or not.
There is also everyday convenience. I can easily stick my hand into my tank whenever I want without having to lift/move/adjust a heavy t5 fixture every time I wish to do so. Pendants are great that way. Most of your tank is left open.
But my biggest gripe is the infamous flat appearance of the corals and tank when only t5's are used, no matter the color mix of the bulbs. You want pop in color? See Kessils with the blue turned up. Now there's pop!
edit...So anyway...I am done trying to reason with you. You will not listen to reason and just keep on arguing. From now on, you'll be arguing with yourself.
LEDS scatter thru a wide angle lens, which has no hotspot at all once diffused.
Do you even know a diffuser lens does? It takes the downward light and bends it and blends it. It is thicker on the bottom to take those downwards rays and vastly reduce the ones going down, and vastly increases the rays going sideways/down. Evenly. Scatters it widely to all angles..evenly. Any well designed modern lens will. T5's are spread out over the tank, only difference ...and you can easily scatter multiple leds over any tank..as few or as many as you'd like.
With t5's there is no programing, no changing of color during the day..only intensity. Tanks lit with only t5's have an extraordinary flat appearance vs. single point leds and halides. You must also replace bulbs at $25 bulb ...easily $150 every yr, year in and year out. That adds up quickly whether you want to admit it or not.
There is also everyday convenience. I can easily stick my hand into my tank whenever I want without having to lift/move/adjust a heavy t5 fixture every time I wish to do so. Pendants are great that way. Most of your tank is left open.
But my biggest gripe is the infamous flat appearance of the corals and tank when only t5's are used, no matter the color mix of the bulbs. You want pop in color? See Kessils with the blue turned up. Now there's pop!
edit...So anyway...I am done trying to reason with you. You will not listen to reason and just keep on arguing. From now on, you'll be arguing with yourself.
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Punchanello
Member
The other thing I don't understand is that albeit a long source of light in all directions on a cylindrical plane with a reflector, it is essentially light from a point source. Assuming you are getting light to a a shadowed part of a coral not directly exposed from the t5 light or its reflector, it will be coming from a reflected or diffused secondary source like the glass, sand or even the bent light of the water itself. Why wouldn't an led diode, particularly one that utilises a diffuser and/or reflector, do the same thing to some extent?
Potatohead
New member
Pretty much.
The best way I can describe it is it's like film vs digital video. T5's is like film where there is no actual resolution, the entire tank is simply covered in light. LED is like 1080p where if you look close enough you'll see that there are actual pixels and areas of light are missing, only using LED at recommended coverage by the manufacturer is like old YouTube 240p. That's the best way I can describe it and to argue otherwise is like arguing evolution didn't happen
.ComforablyNumb
New member
The other thing t5 proponents do not like to talk about is color shift. Its measurable within 26 weeks and after another 26 weeks, its gotten so bad the bulb must be replaced.
LEDS experience no color shift..ever.
LEDS experience no color shift..ever.
ComforablyNumb
New member
I use mine exactly per manufacturer recommendation. Kessil in my case, 2ft for every lamp. If what you said was my impression, I would never keep LEDS. But it isn't my impression at all. I also very much like the shimmer.
This is sorta like discussing religion I guess...in that yours is always the only true way.
ComforablyNumb
New member
Thing with me is ..I have lived all 3 "religions". I started reefing back in 1989 when the main light was 40w x 6 tubes..then 10,000k mH came along, switched to that, then 20k. Then HO became available. Switched to that. Then I added mH to the HO's.
Then the LED revolution came along. I dont think the hobby will ever look back.
Your mileage may vary.
Then the LED revolution came along. I dont think the hobby will ever look back.
Your mileage may vary.
ComforablyNumb
New member
Here a couple of my various tanks over the years starting in 1990:
Latest LED tank:
I had tomato clowns laying eggs in 1991. A local university prof I knew would not believe it until he came over and saw it himself. Could not keep the harder corals tho, no one could then. Now, they are easy to keep with all 3 religions.
Latest LED tank:
I had tomato clowns laying eggs in 1991. A local university prof I knew would not believe it until he came over and saw it himself. Could not keep the harder corals tho, no one could then. Now, they are easy to keep with all 3 religions.
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Have you ever seen a tank lit by GHL Mitras LEDs? Looks exactly like a T5 lit tank. LEDs are quite versatile. How light gets distributed depends entirely on the design of the light.Pretty much.
The best way I can describe it is it's like film vs digital video. T5's is like film where there is no actual resolution, the entire tank is simply covered in light. LED is like 1080p where if you look close enough you'll see that there are actual pixels and areas of light are missing, only using LED at recommended coverage by the manufacturer is like old YouTube 240p. That's the best way I can describe it and to argue otherwise is like arguing evolution didn't happen
Its not, you're casting a wide net in the hopes of catching something correct.
I do. This is the spread and PAR of a Radion xr30 G4 with those high tech HEI lenses. 423 middle and 239 12" to the side. The only way you can get 24" spread out of a light as powerful as the xr30 is to have everything at least 18" deep, at which point you lose your intensity.
I've already said this numerous times now and you choose to ignore it. The issue is not only coverage, you can cover a tank with LED, like I did. Every inch. The light only hits the tops of the SPS branches. Not the sides, not the bottoms. Look at the dark spots in rock work lit by LED, now its gone with T5.
Not sure why you're going over this, it was covered many pages ago. T5 has programming, ATI dimming offers dusk/dawn as does the Giesemann. Why do you want the colour to change? We're growing coral.
I've done all the math for you pages back. You're right, it does add up. It adds up to the price of buying an LED after 4 years, or 10 years if you need more than one LED unit.
Why can't you stick your hand through a 12" gap between the tank and light?
Put a strip of royal blue in.
Ron Reefman
Active member
The answer is simple.
They all grow coral, they all work, they all have their own advantages AND their own disadvantages. Buy the one that suits your individual needs.
They all grow coral, they all work, they all have their own advantages AND their own disadvantages. Buy the one that suits your individual needs.
