Live BlackWorms: Best Fish and LPS Food Ever?

[melanotaenia]

Sorry, but your not getting it? No matter what kind of oils are in worms they are "real" oils, NOT potatoes that were also drenched with petroleum based pesticides and chemical fertilizers and then fried in human engineered cancer causing trans-fat oil

So once again the comparison is ridiculous:wildone:

You are generalizing too much in that statement, so I guess we will have to agree to simply disagree. These worms are terrible for our fish.

 

[Stuart60611]

I did say that somewhere on here thats why I feed something else first. I had problems with bangai cardinals that would eat nothing else but I changed their mind eventually by only feeding other foods until they got the idea. Now they eat anything.
And continousely spawn.

Ya, I am trying to feed other foods first, but my trigger ignores them and waits for the blackworms. Its ok because I will be out of blackworms in a couple of days, and the only food for a while thereafter will be dead frozen food. Trigger will be forced to eat the frozen. Now, however, I am happy to just fatten him up a bit with the blackworms so that when he starves himself switching over to the frozen he will be sufficiently fattened up to handle the few days of a hungar strike I anticipate.

 

[Robka]

You are generalizing too much in that statement, so I guess we will have to agree to simply disagree. These worms are terrible for our fish.

Not sure what the "generalizing" is? I thought my example was pretty specific to what an average French Fry is made of.

I don't have a problem (although I do not agree) with u thinking these fish oils r so bad for our fish (especially if fed as one part of a varied diet). I think Paul's experience is example of the positive effects of feeding LBW. My problem was your comparison of oil in a worm to a french fry which is not an accurate comparison.

Even if u started with an organic potato and fried it in organic oil (these type of fries r probably less than .00005% of all french fries on earth you are still comparing a "fried" food to a food source that is in a natural raw condition.

After my detailed explanation, if u still believe a raw worm is as unhealthy as a french fry then I will agree 2 disagree.

If you are just speaking of pure nutritional value I would b willing 2 eat nothing but worms for a month & you can eat nothing but french fries and our respective doctors could check all of our vitals once every couple of days and c who is right I think this is a fair challenge as your food would taste much better than mine:twitch:

Have a nice day:lolspin:

 

[Paul B]

I don't eat worms or french fries but I do take fish oil capsules every day.
I still feel worms are one of the best things we could feed our fish.
Fish, being cold blooded animals have very different diets than we do. I know from personal observation that fish eat fish most of the time and fish have a large proportion of oil in them. If we as humans ate as much oil as fish do, we would most likely die from vitamin A poisoning. I know worms are full of oil, I know I have healthy fish because they are living long and spawning. Some of my fish are older than a lot of members on here. They show no signs of sickness or disease. They seem to be immune from ich and would die of old age if it were not for accidents. (Yesterday my bluestripped pipefish got sucked into a powerhead, he was part of a spawning pair)
I have been feeding worms almost every day for decades so I can't find a problem with worms which constitute about a quarter of their diet.
As I said, I have not lost a fish to disease since Carter was President. He was after Lincoln.

 

[ezhoops]

informational reading linked here

http://www.eeob.iastate.edu/faculty/DrewesC/htdocs/Lvgen4.htm

 

[SDguy]

You are generalizing too much in that statement, .... These worms are terrible for our fish.

Uh huh.... generalizing.

Since you passed by my initial post regarding this, I'm going to have to pull a Jeremy here, and request some proof. Show me the facts. These worms have been available ever since I started in this hobby, so they are not a new thing. Let's see some historical, even anecdotal evidence, please. So far all I've seen is the % fat content, which unfortunately without any additional info with respect to the "fat" itself or the fish eating the worms, doesn't mean a whole lot, at least to me.

I think it's been made abundantly clear in this thread that, at least I, am talking about these worms as part of a varied diet, and good especially for certain kinds of fish (ie butterflies). I guarantee you that more people lose butterflyfish to starvation than they do to fatty liver. So to dismiss a food option that very well may be the "make it or break it" choice when keeping some fish is irresponsible, IMO, at least to the people reading this thread.

 

[melanotaenia]

Uh huh.... generalizing.

Since you passed by my initial post regarding this, I'm going to have to pull a Jeremy here, and request some proof. Show me the facts. These worms have been available ever since I started in this hobby, so they are not a new thing. Let's see some historical, even anecdotal evidence, please. So far all I've seen is the % fat content, which unfortunately without any additional info with respect to the "fat" itself or the fish eating the worms, doesn't mean a whole lot, at least to me.

I think it's been made abundantly clear in this thread that, at least I, am talking about these worms as part of a varied diet, and good especially for certain kinds of fish (ie butterflies). I guarantee you that more people lose butterflyfish to starvation than they do to fatty liver. So to dismiss a food option that very well may be the "make it or break it" choice when keeping some fish is irresponsible, IMO, at least to the people reading this thread.

Well, if you want to continue to feed a FRESHWATER worm to your Marine fish, then go ahead and do it. No one is stopping you from doing it. But I have worked with marine biologists back in the earlier days of marine keeping, and none of them endorsed the feeding of blackworms as a consistent or healthy diet for our fish, and had autopsy results to prove it in long term specimens who were heavily fed these things.

I am not going to discourage those that swear by these things, but I will say that I will never endorse these as a good food for our fish. There are plenty of choices that are much healthier and more suited for a MARINE animal.

If I can find one of the articles from the marine biologists I worked with, I will post it on here for everyone.

 

[Masterofnonsense]

Well, if you want to continue to feed a FRESHWATER worm to your Marine fish, then go ahead and do it. No one is stopping you from doing it. But I have worked with marine biologists back in the earlier days of marine keeping, and none of them endorsed the feeding of blackworms as a consistent or healthy diet for our fish, and had autopsy results to prove it in long term specimens who were heavily fed these things.

I am not going to discourage those that swear by these things, but I will say that I will never endorse these as a good food for our fish. There are plenty of choices that are much healthier and more suited for a MARINE animal.

If I can find one of the articles from the marine biologists I worked with, I will post it on here for everyone.

Do you feed your fish any pellet or flake foods? If you do, look at the list of ingredients some time, and you'll see they contain many terrestrial ingredients, and are far from being all marine. I am curious what would you say is a better marine food that is easily available, and high in oil?

 

[melanotaenia]

Do you feed your fish any pellet or flake foods? If you do, look at the list of ingredients some time, and you'll see they contain many terrestrial ingredients, and are far from being all marine. I am curious what would you say is a better marine food that is easily available, and high in oil?

Omega fish oils can be found in a variety of natural food sources that can be obtained outside of prepared dried foods. I have never given any of my marine fish prepared foods out of jars. It is just not natural for the fish's diet. And I have had good success making my own homemade fish foods using a blender, a lot of smelly fish and other interesting marine animals, and freeze it into blocks for feeding later. These foods are also very high in protein and other amino acids that fish can benefit from.

 

[Jacob D]

Well, if you want to continue to feed a FRESHWATER worm to your Marine fish, then go ahead and do it. No one is stopping you from doing it.

This doesn't qualify your earlier statement that "these worms are terrible for our fish", which you state as a fact.

But I have worked with marine biologists back in the earlier days of marine keeping, and none of them endorsed the feeding of blackworms as a consistent or healthy diet for our fish, and had autopsy results to prove it in long term specimens who were heavily fed these things.

This would be interesting and I'm sure everyone here would welcome the posting of this information. What was your role in the above?

I am not going to discourage those that swear by these things, but I will say that I will never endorse these as a good food for our fish. There are plenty of choices that are much healthier and more suited for a MARINE animal.

This would have been a better way to present your argument initially. However you're still making some opinionated statements as facts. Which choices are much healthier? Healthier in what ways? Please site sources, and/or your qualifications.

If I can find one of the articles from the marine biologists I worked with, I will post it on here for everyone.

Again, the effort to find and post this would be welcomed and appreciated even if it contradicts what many of us here think.

 

[tcmfish]

Well, if you want to continue to feed a FRESHWATER worm to your Marine fish, then go ahead and do it. No one is stopping you from doing it. But I have worked with marine biologists back in the earlier days of marine keeping, and none of them endorsed the feeding of blackworms as a consistent or healthy diet for our fish, and had autopsy results to prove it in long term specimens who were heavily fed these things.

I am not going to discourage those that swear by these things, but I will say that I will never endorse these as a good food for our fish. There are plenty of choices that are much healthier and more suited for a MARINE animal.

If I can find one of the articles from the marine biologists I worked with, I will post it on here for everyone.

My fish love blackworms, it is like drugs to them. That however does not mean we should feed them to our fish. Most humans live french fries. But they are not goof for us

So you feed your fish the worms, and then talk about how bad they are?????

C'mon man, stop with all the BS! Also, back in the day blackworms were infested with parasites and what not from where they came from, I think the hobby has come a long way since "the earlier days of marine keeping."

 

[snorvich]

These worms are terrible for our fish.

Prove it! Otherwise, your disagreement has been noted so reiteration of such adds no value.

 

[Stuart60611]

The one thing that I have noticed about feeding blackworms is some fish can become addicted to them. I have been feeding these for about 1 week or so. Although I offer other foods first and feed them last toward the end of the lights on period, my trigger refuses all other food. I am going to run out of them in the next couple days and hopefully my trigger will go back to eating frozen. I am sure, however, he will go on a hungar strike for a few days before he eventually eats the frozen. Also, my dogface puffer will have nothing to do with eating blackworms. All my other fish love them.

 

[tcmfish]

Stuart triggers usually don't refuse food, but I believe you had a thread on trigger somewhere else. He will probably pull through. You can always try some ghost shrimp or something too, if you need another live food to trigger the trigger :lol:

Also some big fish like puffers and big triggers and groupers etc. won't notice them as food because they don't normally prey on such small items.

 

[Stuart60611]

Stuart triggers usually don't refuse food, but I believe you had a thread on trigger somewhere else. He will probably pull through. You can always try some ghost shrimp or something too, if you need another live food to trigger the trigger :lol:

Also some big fish like puffers and big triggers and groupers etc. won't notice them as food because they don't normally prey on such small items.

Ya, I did have a thread on my trigger in the Fish Only forum. He got out of 3 weeks treatment of cupramine for crypt, along with my other fish. He stoped eating during treatment for about 2 weeks. After taking him out of copper, he continued to refuse to eat. That is why I sought out the blackworms. Upon first feeding the blackworms, the trigger went nuts and ate them like crazy. To be fair, he has eaten a few bites (and I mean just a few) of frozen since he has been out of copper, and I have been feeding the blackworms. However, he is not too interested in the frozen. The few bites of frozen he has eaten only occured when I first added the frozen to the tank. He then lunged for a bite of the frozen. However, once he figured out the frozen was not blackworms, he showed no more interest in the frozen. He is not too large at about 5 inches. My dogface is not that large also at about 6 inches. The trigger is an Indian trigger (Indicus). I think my trigger will be fine. I decided to let him have his way and dine exclusively on blackworms for a bit so that he can get his strength back and put on some weight he lost from the cupramine induced hungar strike. Once the blackworms run out, I am going to force him to eat frozen or not eat at all. He should pull through that ok now that he has regained some strength eating the blackworms.

 

[melanotaenia]

So you feed your fish the worms, and then talk about how bad they are?????

C'mon man, stop with all the BS! Also, back in the day blackworms were infested with parasites and what not from where they came from, I think the hobby has come a long way since "the earlier days of marine keeping."

No. I have fed them in the past as a last resort when a fish will not feed. But I do not feed them on any regular basis after that.

 

[Paul B]

But I have worked with marine biologists back in the earlier days of marine keeping, and none of them endorsed the feeding of blackworms as a consistent or healthy diet for our fish,

Marine Biologists in general don't have any more knowlege about aquarium fish than the common layman. I have a cousin who is a marine biologist professor. A professor and for that title he had to SCUBA dive exactly once. He has never had a fish tank of any type much less a salt tank and when he looks in my tank he barely knows what he is looking at. A knowlege of marine biology doesn't help much in the care of ornamental tropical fish.
I myself am an electrician with no degrees at all in any phase of marine biology or fish keeping in general but I have a very old tank. Do any of the marine biologists you are associated with even have a tank of any great age?
Did they ever feed blackworms to fish for 40 years as a test and see if any of them died due to worms. I did. Are any of them breeding fish?
I certainly have no written proof that worms are good for fish, but I do have proof that they are not bad for fish.
I am sorry but your marine biologist friends are wrong. You can tell them I said so and we can compare notes or at least compare fish tanks. :fun2:


melanotaenia, remember, I in no way want this to be any type of argument, I am having fun and really enjoy this discussion. We certainly don't have to agree as long as we remain friends.

 

[ezhoops]

Times change:>

I remember when my Grandpa was told by his doctor to START SMOKING because he was so stressed out from working. 35 years later he was told to quit. 2 years after that he died of lung cancer.

Doctors, professors, teachers, professionals in any aspect make mistakes and are out right wrong about things.

BTW, I just got my black velvet angel who hasn't eaten in 10 days to fill his belly with black worms.

 

[Yogre]

I've been following this thread since the beginning with a great deal of interest. I have two underweight fish, a female lyretail anthias and a yellow tang that is absolutely emaciated. I currently feed twice daily, with PE mysis and Rod's Fish Only blend being the staples. Nori is also fed for the tangs. It's true that I've been underfeeding as I've been battling a major hair algae outbreak, but that's a different thread.

I'm looking at the high fat content of blackworms and thinking that this may be a good way to put some weight on my yellow tang in particular.

Some of the arguments against this that I've seen compare blackworms to human french fry consumption... in my mind there's no comparison. Effects of excessive saturated fat in humans are fairly well known. I'm not so sure the effects of fat/oil consumption in marine fish are nearly as well known. Also, I would expect this effect to vary widely from genera to genera, as the natural dietary requirements vary enormously and are not well known to begin with.

Near as I can tell the evidence out there is experiential, not experimental, and given that some seriously experienced marine fish-keepers have good results with these things I think I'll give them a try.

 

[rssjsb]

So you feed your fish the worms, and then talk about how bad they are?????

Also, back in the day blackworms were infested with parasites and what not from where they came from, I think the hobby has come a long way since "the earlier days of marine keeping."

I agree with your point, but I think this was (and may still be) true of tubifex worms, which were harvested in filthy conditions. I don't think blackworms have really had those problems.

Times change:>
BTW, I just got my black velvet angel who hasn't eaten in 10 days to fill his belly with black worms.

This is great news! Saw your other thread. My experience with angels is that once they get it, they get it.