long acclimations

[ctenophors rule]

if i remember correctly, their was a study that proved that long acclimations are detrimental to the health of fish in most cases.

i believe the study was of 15 and 30 minutes, and the 15 minutes had better survival rates.

also if anyone wants to interject their oppinion please feel free to.

thanks!

 

[iFisch]

Never heard of such a thing.

Please post the link if this is true.

 

[ctenophors rule]

thats the problem, i cant find the stat, though i think i remember reading it on a topic on reef central.

(my memory is leaving me at my ripe old age of 15, lol)

 

[ctenophors rule]

doesn't somebody have something to say about weather or not long water changes are better or worse than short ones?

and bump

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15047588#post15047588 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ctenophors rule
thats the problem, i cant find the stat, though i think i remember reading it on a topic on reef central.

(my memory is leaving me at my ripe old age of 15, lol)

The report your looking for was a study conducted by OSU IIRC but what you posted isn't exactly what was found.

 

[Jeremy0322]

The only thing I can really think of about this would be that during the acclimation the fish would be stressed, and there would be an increase in ammonia in the container which would be harmful to the fish?

 

[GreshamH]

Well if untreated and poorly diluted, the ammonia ladden shipping water quickly becomes toxic as the PH rises. This is typically what is referred to when speaking about long acclimation not being so great.

 

[ctenophors rule]

i haven't found the article yet, but i will keep searching, i am on page 5 on google results. lol

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15072722#post15072722 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
Well if untreated and poorly diluted, the ammonia laden shipping water quickly becomes toxic as the PH rises. This is typically what is referred to when speaking about long acclimation not being so great.

That's it exactly.

Depending on the length of confinement in a bag the shipping water could be quite toxic to the fish very rapidly when the bag is opened. Ammonia builds up during confinement from urea . CO2 builds up too from respiration. The CO2 buildup drops the ph . In lower ph the almost harmless form of ammonia known as ammonium increases and the more toxic ammonia decreases.

When the bag is opened, the CO2 equilibrates with the air ;the ph rises,and; much of the ammonium speciates to the more toxic ammonia in the higher ph. .

So for fish with a long confinement period it is urgent to move them out of the bag quickly. One way to do this is to set up a qt tank with an sg equal to or lower than the shipping water( many ship at around 1.015sg) but no lower than 1.009 ( marine fish have an internal sg of about 1.008 and while they can cope with higher sg via osmoregulation they have no way to cope with an sg lower than their internal sg.) .

Float the unopened bag for 15 minutes or so for temperature acclimation . Then open the bag ,spill of the excess water into a bucket and slide the fish into the qt tank. You can now adjust the sg upward slowly ( say .01 per day) to match the sg of the display.

 

[GreshamH]

Yah 10 years impoting fish I had bettter get this one right :lol:
IME best method is to use a acclimation system that has the PH lowered to that of the bag as well as salinity. Both get bumped up in the system itself. A simple co2 tank and controller are suffice to control the PH. Once it matches simply turn off the CO2 and the system will rise on it's own.

 

[tmz]

Ok, I'd like to match ph. Seems like it would be hard to know what it is in the bag and once you open it to test it it will bump anyway. Do you have a technique for this? I haven't been able to figure it out. Anyway I think getting the sg at or below the bag water to prevent osmotic shock is a bigger issue as is moving the fish out of the opened bag quickly to avoid toxic ammonia exposure .

Thanks

 

[luther1200]

I remeber what you are talking about, but I can't find it either. I also believe in short acclimations and always have. I have never acclimated anything longer than 30 min. And I have never lost anything do to it.

 

[snorvich]

I do 30 minutes and have never lost a fish. However, I buy from Dr. Foster and Smith who ship fish at 1.025.

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15099424#post15099424 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by snorvich
I do 30 minutes and have never lost a fish. However, I buy from Dr. Foster and Smith who ship fish at 1.025.

They load the bag with oxygen too. Nonetheless, in the case of a delayed shipment (ie two day deal) you may want to get them out off the bag quickly.

 

[ctenophors rule]

thanks guys, its wierd, threads seem to be dissapearing every day, its a dangerous world for a thread in this day and age.

would be a good movie plot, threads magicaly dissapearing as they have lost their use, but then a thread is called apon, having already been deleted.

hackers (good guys, crackers are bad) fight through cyber space and find, to their horror, that the forum base is responsible for the forum deletions, after much denying, then the foum base sands an assasin to kill him......i could go on and on, but i should stop rambling, i've hijacked my own thread. lol

 

[hlem]

that's why i dont order fish online so often.... I mostly buy from LFS, they usually can order the fish you are looking for anyway. Ask them to order, make sure the fish stay alive for a week or two in the store, then pay for it. then you can acclimate as long as you want...