Long term success with a harem of bartlett anthias?
- Thread starter SDguy
- Start date
zemuron114
In Memoriam
But, judging solely on the number of males i get in from christmas compared to females makes me think there are just more males in nature... OR what we think are male vs female isn't correct. Maybe some of the bright pink ones that are "male" are actually female, and the small tiny ones are just juveniles... it very well could be that even the "males" (that we think are males) are females and we just can't tell the difference.... All i know is 75% of the ones i get are usually "male" or bright pink and large. So it brings me back to my original point of either they are collected bigger because they look nicer, or they are found that way. And based on what i know how christmas does business i highly doubt they only collected the nice ones 
they collect everything and anything and send it... lol
they collect everything and anything and send it... lol
I doubt some of the bright pink ones are female. IME, as soon as they have a visible yellow bar running down their flank, regardless of tail streamers or the amount of pink on their face, they are on their way to becoming a male.
With my previous trio...the day my dominant male died, even before the "hiding" male got a chance to realize he was gone, the female developed that yellow bar down her flank, and simply continued to bully the subordinate male, as the original male did.
FWIW, completely yellow females are pretty unattractive, comparatively, so I can imagine them not being collected as much.
With my previous trio...the day my dominant male died, even before the "hiding" male got a chance to realize he was gone, the female developed that yellow bar down her flank, and simply continued to bully the subordinate male, as the original male did.
FWIW, completely yellow females are pretty unattractive, comparatively, so I can imagine them not being collected as much.
Hmmm..that just made me think of something. Perhaps their ability to "go male" so quickly is the problem. Perhaps during shipping and holding several times gives them this opportunity...
That's why only these tiny, really yellow ones are still female by the time they get to my tank?
Interesting...
That's why only these tiny, really yellow ones are still female by the time they get to my tank?
Interesting...
zemuron114
In Memoriam
they catch them, hold them together in cages in the ocean, then ship them probably 2-4 days after. It is highly unlikely they can change that quickly. the flight is only 4 hours... thats a damn quick time. lol
interesting thought though... Do we even really know if the pink and yellow bar is a sure sign for a male? I mean it is "known" in the hobby they are male, but are they Really male?
interesting thought though... Do we even really know if the pink and yellow bar is a sure sign for a male? I mean it is "known" in the hobby they are male, but are they Really male?
Since this is probably the most popular anthias out there is it possible that they vary slightly by locale collected at? Most all of the ones I have seen offered for sale were collected from the Maldives. I've never seen them listed as Christmas Island.
This species has a huge range so I would think geographic variation has a effect on them. Area's with shorter spawning seasons have a need for quick sex changing where as area's that have a long spawning season don't.
??????
Carl
This species has a huge range so I would think geographic variation has a effect on them. Area's with shorter spawning seasons have a need for quick sex changing where as area's that have a long spawning season don't.
??????
Carl
I'm not saying they need to be alone to change...just that perhaps once their social structure gets disrupted (ie initial capture) and then the week of shipping, holding at various facilities, LFS, all lends itself to promoting the change in many individuals.
My lyretail male took all of 1 week to make the complete change. I don't think a week is unreasonable from time of capture to final LFS sale.
But no, I don't think we know if the yellow flank band means male, or full male, or whatever. I think there's a lot we don't know about this fish, hence me starting this thread I love all the input we've had, BTW!
My lyretail male took all of 1 week to make the complete change. I don't think a week is unreasonable from time of capture to final LFS sale.
But no, I don't think we know if the yellow flank band means male, or full male, or whatever. I think there's a lot we don't know about this fish, hence me starting this thread
I love all the input we've had, BTW!zemuron114
In Memoriam
Carl - 95%+ of the bartletts that enter the hobby are from christmas not maldives. I've never heard of them coming from the maldives. I know they are getting the lyretails there with the different colorations in the males, but not bartletts. Are you sure they are maldives?
SDguy - i agree. a week is probably long enough. Maybe once they start the change they can't reverse it??
I still think there is no real sexual difference in them (except for streamers) there are juvies (half pink/yellow ones) then adults bright pink, then the males will have the streamers. Hmmmmm
SDguy - i agree. a week is probably long enough. Maybe once they start the change they can't reverse it??
I still think there is no real sexual difference in them (except for streamers) there are juvies (half pink/yellow ones) then adults bright pink, then the males will have the streamers. Hmmmmm
My mistake. It was Marshall Islands that is listed under most sites. I really only trust DFS. The locale guy I deal with gets his in with Marshall orders.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1128
The Marine Center was the only one listing them from Christmas Island that I could find.
Could they just be being recieved in Marshall from Christmas?
Carl
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1128
The Marine Center was the only one listing them from Christmas Island that I could find.
Could they just be being recieved in Marshall from Christmas?
Carl
zemuron114
In Memoriam
Mainly christmas island. Im almost positive most come from christmas. Ive talked to a few marshall collectors and they all say the bartletts are always small. So either a) Live aquaria has them listed from marshalls when they are from christmas (very well can be - always happens)
or b) LA has a source in Marshalls for them that no one else has...
or b) LA has a source in Marshalls for them that no one else has...
zemuron114
In Memoriam
are they big? I was told numerous times they are generally small from marshalls (although they could be big and i was misinformed - which i wouldn't doubt.. lol)
All i know is the ones most LFS get are from christmas. Marshalls doesn't supply nearly the amount as christmas does.
All i know is the ones most LFS get are from christmas. Marshalls doesn't supply nearly the amount as christmas does.
The ones we get in san diego are pretty small. Only once, in many years, have I ever seen a male bartlett with streamers for sale. Usually 1.5 to 2" only.
On that note, my male looks to be starting to develop streamers.
However, the larger female looks to also be developing the yellow bar down the flank 
We'll see how this progresses.
Here's the male...sorry for the weird colors, the flash went off.
On that note, my male looks to be starting to develop streamers.
However, the larger female looks to also be developing the yellow bar down the flank We'll see how this progresses.Here's the male...sorry for the weird colors, the flash went off.
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jelwyoming
JELWYOMING
Do lyretails exhibit the same change paterns that the bartlett do? After reading this thread, I am hestiating to put in shoal of 1/3 bartletts or lyretails in my 115g. I only see one or two responses in this whole thread that has had any success. Are there more out there that have either of these in that ratio doing well?
jelwyoming
JELWYOMING
Peter,
I think that you said that you had both. With the problem of the Bartletts changing as they do, would you say that it worth trying the Barletts, or to get go with a trio or so of Lyretails?
I lost half my fish to a breaker failure last week, so I am looking at these as a possibility to a community tank.
If I have read in diving material in the past, it seems that many of the anthias species normally inhabit more open water with very large communities or grouping of fish. I wonder if it is even feasible to try to adapt a small shoal of Barletts to a tank with less open area where the other groups are visible. Perhaps that keeps them herding there harems. In a tank with alot of rock, they can become fairly isolated. Maybe that is a factor to consider along with the male/female density. I can see that perhaps a sparsely "rocked" tank might cause a different social response from a group of Bartletts as compared to a tank filled with rock. Just a thought, possibly another variable to consider.
I think that you said that you had both. With the problem of the Bartletts changing as they do, would you say that it worth trying the Barletts, or to get go with a trio or so of Lyretails?
I lost half my fish to a breaker failure last week, so I am looking at these as a possibility to a community tank.
If I have read in diving material in the past, it seems that many of the anthias species normally inhabit more open water with very large communities or grouping of fish. I wonder if it is even feasible to try to adapt a small shoal of Barletts to a tank with less open area where the other groups are visible. Perhaps that keeps them herding there harems. In a tank with alot of rock, they can become fairly isolated. Maybe that is a factor to consider along with the male/female density. I can see that perhaps a sparsely "rocked" tank might cause a different social response from a group of Bartletts as compared to a tank filled with rock. Just a thought, possibly another variable to consider.
jelwyoming
JELWYOMING
Peter,
I think that you said that you had both. With the problem of the Bartletts changing as they do, would you say that it worth trying the Barletts, or to get go with a trio or so of Lyretails?
I lost half my fish to a breaker failure last week, so I am looking at these as a possibility to a community tank.
If I have read in diving material in the past, it seems that many of the anthias species normally inhabit more open water with very large communities or grouping of fish. I wonder if it is even feasible to try to adapt a small shoal of Barletts to a tank with less open area where the other groups are visible. Perhaps that keeps them herding there harems. In a tank with alot of rock, they can become fairly isolated. Maybe that is a factor to consider along with the male/female density. I can see that perhaps a sparsely "rocked" tank might cause a different social response from a group of Bartletts as compared to a tank filled with rock. Just a thought, possibly another variable to consider.
I think that you said that you had both. With the problem of the Bartletts changing as they do, would you say that it worth trying the Barletts, or to get go with a trio or so of Lyretails?
I lost half my fish to a breaker failure last week, so I am looking at these as a possibility to a community tank.
If I have read in diving material in the past, it seems that many of the anthias species normally inhabit more open water with very large communities or grouping of fish. I wonder if it is even feasible to try to adapt a small shoal of Barletts to a tank with less open area where the other groups are visible. Perhaps that keeps them herding there harems. In a tank with alot of rock, they can become fairly isolated. Maybe that is a factor to consider along with the male/female density. I can see that perhaps a sparsely "rocked" tank might cause a different social response from a group of Bartletts as compared to a tank filled with rock. Just a thought, possibly another variable to consider.
zemuron114
In Memoriam
i think bartletts are nicer looking then lyretails, and more passive/stay smaller. SDguy, what are you experience with aggression (from either)?
