Losing one type of Zoas but not others

[mess7777]

I have 5-6 types of zoas. Recently I have lost almost all of my green on green ones. These are the standard ones you see everywhere, flourescent green inside and out. Other corals except a few troubles euphyllia are actually doing quite well, so it's a bit of a mystery what is happening.

I do have high N (20ppm) and P (.25) but I always have had high numbers and they were fine for the past year. If anything my N has come down in the past couple months, but not enough that it should kill off what is considered a hardy zoa. I should mention that my GSP is also closed up and not doing too much....so maybe related.

Alk - 8
Ca - 420ppm
Mg - 1280
Salinity - 1.025
Temp - 79

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Sorry to hear this, but when you say "lost", did they completely died off? If so, explain what exactly happened to them. Did they slowly wither, over what time period, pinch and/or bent over, did they disintergrate, did they slim, white stuff, brown stuff, black stuff, did they detach, bleach, just disappear all together overnight etc.

Do you have pictures of them?

I have more questions, but no use asking them until we hear back from you on the above ones. This could go several different ways depending on your answer.

Your parameters are ok, zero trates is a good target, negligible
phosphates are ok.

Mucho Reef

 

[arch85]

yeah, if you could describe the symptoms, that might help...

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Hey mess7777, where did you go my friend?

 

[mess7777]

Sorry to hear this, but when you say "lost", did they completely died off? If so, explain what exactly happened to them. Did they slowly wither, over what time period, pinch and/or bent over, did they disintergrate, did they slim, white stuff, brown stuff, black stuff, did they detach, bleach, just disappear all together overnight etc.

Do you have pictures of them?

I have more questions, but no use asking them until we hear back from you on the above ones. This could go several different ways depending on your answer.

Your parameters are ok, zero trates is a good target, negligible
phosphates are ok.

Mucho Reef

sorry about that! didn't see the responses for some reason.

I have maybe 10 left from what was once over 100. They detached from the rock and then disappeared. I could see them starting to teeter in the flow and then they would completely let go after a while. I can also say the same thing happened to other zoas.....grey with orange skirts. I happened to catch two that detached. I moved them to a new spot and they are doing fine...although it is only inches from where they were and the flow is actually higher there. It is definitely not flow causing detachment, because I also have watermelon zoas attached to the same rock that haven't taken nearly the hit.

Here is a picture from not too long ago :

and an older one:

I have euphyllias that have taken a huge hit as well. It's really a mystery to me.......it's almost like they are starving but seems strange with all the nitrates and phosphates hanging around.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Just prior to your polyp loss, did you make any changes or additions of any kind?

Please take no offense to this at all, as I have seen this happen before. Will go and dig out the thread to share it. If you are having this type of polyp detachment, I have to ask. Was there any sign at all of any Necrosis on these polyps?

Something was introduced, overdosed, a parameter had a very serious spike i.e hyper or hypo something. This just doesn't happen my friend on a regular basis.


A spike or dive or pollutant in conjunction with excessive current could very well explain what you are seeing. Irritation causes detachment and current sweeps them away. A perfect storm.

Same tank, same lighting, same parameters and a move only 2 or 3 inches away. You changed nothing but their position correct? Did you keep them at the same level in the tank?


This is a true story. I once helped a reefers locally who was having basically the same issue. I told her the same thing. We went through a litany of possiblities. I mean I asked her a hundred questions. Then I looked at her and could smell her perfume. She was a newbie who kept her hands in her tank, adding something, moving something, taking somethig out, trading something, selling something, rearranging something. Then I ask her, do you wear reef safe gloves? She said, " I never heard of such a thing ". We walked to the kitchen and grabbed a stainless steal colored shiney bowl and filled it half way. I ask her to stick her hands in the water. All the hand lotions, perfumes etc she was wearing or had appplied or maybe it was regular household chemicals she handled, all radiated outward on the surface of the water in that bowl. Her jaw dropped........she was polluting her tank and didn't know it, which irritated her polyps, they slowly began to detach and the current slept them away.

Let's keep talking about this. How are they now?

Any other parameters to share?

Mucho Reef

 

[mess7777]

I have recently added an ATS which seemed to accelerate the loss, although it had started well before that. One day I came home and it looked like a trough was plowed through...almost like a boulder rolled down that rock and took out a row. That seemed to be the beginning.

One theory that I have is that this rock is packed full of rottenness from past neglect(I purchased it from another reefer). When I first got it it was literally a bed of algae. Now it is algae free, but perhaps the function of the ATS helping remove phosphates is increases the phosphate leeching?

I keep my hands out of the tank as much as possible, and don't use perfumes or lotions in any case.

The place i moved 2 polyps to is higher up in the tank.

I should also mention it's not just a zoa thing. I am losing a lot of stuff, including euphyllias, GSP and red mushrooms. Almost everything doing badly is in the bottom half of the tank.....

Things I know I need to do
1.Get a TDS meter, maybe my filters are shot
2. Keep up on water changes

 

[wireefman]

Other corals except a few troubles euphyllia are actually doing quite well, so it's a bit of a mystery what is happening.

I do have high N (20ppm) and P (.25) but I always have had high numbers and they were fine for the past year. If anything my N has come down in the past couple months, but not enough that it should kill off what is considered a hardy zoa. I should mention that my GSP is also closed up and not doing too much....so maybe related.

Alk - 8
Ca - 420ppm
Mg - 1280
Salinity - 1.025
Temp - 79

sorry about that! didn't see the responses for some reason.

I have maybe 10 left from what was once over 100. They detached from the rock and then disappeared. I could see them starting to teeter in the flow and then they would completely let go after a while. I can also say the same thing happened to other zoas.....grey with orange skirts. I happened to catch two that detached. I moved them to a new spot and they are doing fine...although it is only inches from where they were and the flow is actually higher there. It is definitely not flow causing detachment, because I also have watermelon zoas attached to the same rock that haven't taken nearly the hit.


I have euphyllias that have taken a huge hit as well. It's really a mystery to me.......it's almost like they are starving but seems strange with all the nitrates and phosphates hanging around.

I have recently added an ATS which seemed to accelerate the loss, although it had started well before that. One day I came home and it looked like a trough was plowed through...almost like a boulder rolled down that rock and took out a row. That seemed to be the beginning.

One theory that I have is that this rock is packed full of rottenness from past neglect(I purchased it from another reefer). When I first got it it was literally a bed of algae. Now it is algae free, but perhaps the function of the ATS helping remove phosphates is increases the phosphate leeching?



I should also mention it's not just a zoa thing. I am losing a lot of stuff, including euphyllias, GSP and red mushrooms. Almost everything doing badly is in the bottom half of the tank.....

i quoted these 3 posts of your because i am confused...

first you say its just the zoas... then later in the post you say a few euphillia's are strugling... then next you say othe zoas havent taken quite the hit... and then the euphillias are taking quite the hit... and lastly in your final quote its now zoas, euphillias gsp and mushrooms...

so within like 6 days... its gone from one patch of zoas- to multiple zoas, euphillias, gsp, and mushrooms.....

has ANYTHING equipment wise changed aside from the ats.. *however i bet its playing a role... your water was really dirty and now is fastly cleaning up..
have you changed your lighting bulbs latley? added carbon? something... anything... any new frags added recently... if so do you qt them?

 

[mess7777]

i quoted these 3 posts of your because i am confused...

first you say its just the zoas... then later in the post you say a few euphillia's are strugling... then next you say othe zoas havent taken quite the hit... and then the euphillias are taking quite the hit... and lastly in your final quote its now zoas, euphillias gsp and mushrooms...

so within like 6 days... its gone from one patch of zoas- to multiple zoas, euphillias, gsp, and mushrooms.....

has ANYTHING equipment wise changed aside from the ats.. *however i bet its playing a role... your water was really dirty and now is fastly cleaning up..
have you changed your lighting bulbs latley? added carbon? something... anything... any new frags added recently... if so do you qt them?

ATS is the only change. Lights are the same.

I have two types of zoas that took a hit, the watermelon ones are mostly ok...and are on the same rock as the green ones that have virtually dissapeared. The euphyllia are mentioned in the first post and again in the 3rd, they are doing very poorly.....couple completely dead and others well on their way. Strangely, I have 2 euphyllia and several types of zoas that are doing just fine, adding to the mystery.

I had an alk swing from 10-7 in less than a week....but this happened well after I first noticed the losses.

Honestly, there is something in my tank seriously wrong, particularly the bottom half. I don't know if it could be contaminated sandbed, fish that died which I never found....or something that got into the tank and is only affecting the bottom half?

 

[ReeferBill]

Mess7777 ., Have you checked your PH , I have noticed that my green star polyps close up when my PH is low and I did lose one frag of orange zoa's around that time. How often and what do you dose for a buffer????

 

[mess7777]

I never did mentione my pH!!!

It's usually 7.8, although hard to tell for sure with my API test. I personally believe it falls below this at times. I have tried buffers in the past but they just raised alk with little effect on pH contrary to the advertising.

I want to start using Kalk....but since my tank is not using any Ca or Alk due to phosphate issues I am worried about taking these too high.

I also noticed that some pieces of rock dissolved a bit...which also can be a symptom of low pH. The other weird thing is bleaching of the Euphyllia on the bottom of the tank...so not light related.

Now that the weather is warming I am keeping the windows open more which should in theory help to bring my pH back up.

 

[mess7777]

Tested my pH last night and it has risen, up to around 8-8.2 now. The problem with API is that it never seems to match one of the colors.

In other interesting news, I tested nitrates again and it appears that they have come down slightly....the orange is less "orange" on my test if that makes any sense.

Maybe there is some light at the end of the tunnel.

Ca - 420
Alk - 8

Didn't test Mg, but I think 1150 is a little low based on my last test so I'll probably add some to get it up to 3x the Ca.

Nothing is showing any improvement yet....but I am sure recovery will be at least as long as destruction.

 

[650-IS350]

Have you watched your tangs from afar? watch them far enough that they behave normally as if you werent there.

 

[mess7777]

Have you watched your tangs from afar? watch them far enough that they behave normally as if you werent there.

A couple of my euphyllias spit out their algae (zooanthexfdsa however you spell it). My tang will eat that (only the sailfin is there now), but it has never touched anything else....and I have watched A LOT from afar!

I am 100% sure they detach from the rocks....I have seen it.

 

[wireefman]

nitrates are going down as your ATS is starting to work.

tangs wouldnt/cant eat zooanthele... ive heard of a few tangs eatting polyps..

do you dip incoming frags? i wondering if you dont have a parisite... a sundial snail or even a zoa spider... i know that doesnt help with the euphillias but you said you had a row that looked like a rock rolled down it... when i first had zoas i got the snails on a shipment and they munched what appeared to be a path....

 

[mess7777]

nitrates are going down as your ATS is starting to work.

tangs wouldnt/cant eat zooanthele... ive heard of a few tangs eatting polyps..

do you dip incoming frags? i wondering if you dont have a parisite... a sundial snail or even a zoa spider... i know that doesnt help with the euphillias but you said you had a row that looked like a rock rolled down it... when i first had zoas i got the snails on a shipment and they munched what appeared to be a path....

I didn't dip these ones, however as I said they were fine for a year. I haven't added any new zoas in months. It is possible there is some type of predatory pod or something, but I have checked during day and night....and have yet to be able to spot anything munching.

I still believe it's a water quality thing, something is wrong with my water, perhaps something leeching from the rocks. I am just hoping my ATS kicks into high gear and starts pulling it out quickly. I am starting to see the fuzziness that the FAQs talk about which is supposedly a result of it pulling out bound phosphates. If this all happens before I lose everything, I'll be happy.

 

[theman772]

did you get the tds meter are you changing your water trying to stop the damage you could have chloramines that your ro di will not take out will not show up on a tds meter are you doing more and more water changes the carbon in your rodi should take out chloramines but maybe it is not?

 

[wireefman]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2168068