Lost or losing all my SPS - still not sure why.

LobsterOfJustice

Recovering Detritophobe
Alright guys,

Over the past month I have lost, or am losing, every SPS in my tank. I am completely at a loss as to why this is happening. I just wanted to post to see if I am missing something that you all could catch. Here is the tank just before the losses (if you look hard enough you can see one dead frag).

fromleft.jpg


The corals are not usually dying in the traditional STN sense. The ORA blue tort just looked terrible for about a month before it died. A lot of the corals have their mesenteries out for a few days before the dieoff starts. Some of the corals got patchy STN with bare skeleton underneath. Others have "tissue thinning", where it looks like the tissue just slowly sinks into the skeleton. But the weirdest way of dying which most of them have shown looks like abrasions - like sandpaper had been rubbed over the entire surface of the coral. I would like to know if anyone else has seen this before and can pinpoint it to a certian problem. Montis and Acros have been affected, and no new corals have been added in months.

This tank was moved and upgraded over the summer. For about a month after the move everything was doing great, and all the corals layed down new bases. I had a minor alk spike (9 -> 11) when the solenoid of my reactor stuck on. This is what I blamed the first few losses on, but that was maybe two months ago now, and this has slowly spread throughout the tank. The only other changes I can think of are that I started using ZeoMag in my reactor. I also put some sargassum in my frag tank, but that was after they started dying so I dont really blame it on that. I have however measured some nitrates for the first time recently. My tank has never had detectable nitrates, but measured 10 recently. I know its not ideal, but wouldnt think it is enough to kill all my SPS. I'm thinking the nitrates might be from the sargassum dying off, so I removed it.

So the basic tank information:
90g, 2 250w MH (XM 20K) and 2 220x VHO actinic (all bulbs changed in july)
2 Tunze 6000 on multicontroller
MRC-2 beckett skimmer modded to run wetter
Ca - 425 (Salifert)
Alk - usualy around 9, been at 10 since the spike a while back (LaMotte)
Mg - Used to be around 1200, 1350 recently (Salifert)
PO4 - 0 (Salifert)
Nitrates - 10 (usually 0) (Salifert)
Running carbon and phosban in separate reactors
Maintaining Alk/Ca/Mg with dual stage CaRx
All water change water and topoff made with 0 TDS RODI
Usually do a 30g waterchange every 2 weeks with a 50-50 mix of IO/Oceanic

Fish:
1 Majestic Angel
1 Lemonpeel Tang
1 Scribbled rabbitfish
5 Anthias
2 Ocellaris Clowns
1 YWG
Big mean Damsel and Dwarf Lion in the frag tank

I usually feed two cubes of frozen food every day, rinsed out in the sink first.

I guess thats all I can think of. Really, I am posting this as a last resort. I just want to know if anyone has ever seen this kind of death (mesenteries out, sanded appearance) and linked it to something. Or if there is something I am overlooking.
 
Wow great looking tank. Can I ask if you added anything wildcaught/collected? Do you see any brown slime algea anywere? I would suspect that the majestic could be a cause of the problem if he started to pick and cuase the SPS the get stressed out. Everything else looks great as far as levels go. Is the protein skimmer going crazy/ adjusted to work to full proformance? I hate to see threads like this Man becuase it happened to me. I tried everythign when all my Sps started to rtn/stn and finally found out it was a bacterial infection that cuased most of my Sps to Die. Large water changes was the only thing that helped. Now I have started to stock the tank very slow and no more wild cuaght colonies:)
best of luck
Michael
 
Abrasions....MONTIS AND ACROS.................ANGEL

I know that is not the answer you want to hear, but it is what it is.
 
I'm not an SPS expert but I have been keeping them for a time now and know they are sensitive. That said, if you have massive deaths one colony at a time, its either predation or something systematic. If it were happening to me I would suspect the following:

Fish preying on the coral - ie angels.
AEFW- have you checked for those tell-tale dots?
Acro eating Crabs - Hairy critters and only seen at night (usually)

If none of those are the culprit, I would then consider something i have added. I had a few colonies STN and ended up pulling my GFO out of the system. Since then it has been heaven, with growth and plenty of color.

That ALK spike might also be a problem, but alk spikes usually lead to STN from the base which it doesn't sound like in this case.
 
Re: Lost or losing all my SPS - still not sure why.

Or if there is something I am overlooking.

Could be. A new tank always equals new idiosyncrasies. I'd start be looking at your inverts. If you do not see exaggerated invert deaths, then you can rule out metal contamination. As a precaution, I'd still look for any potential metal contamination sources such as hose clamps over the sump.

I would also clean out all your pumps. Sometimes, calcium and other stuff will build up in your pumps to the point of cutting down the flow to about 50%. The build up adds friction which causes the impellors to slow down. It appears that flow may be lacking because the picture shows surface film (of course you may have shut them off for pics).

Soak the tunze screens in muriatic. Clean out the pumps really well. I'm only emphasizing this because I saw pics of your bathroom/fishroom several years ago. :D
 
Are the patches on the bottom or the tips?

Does it seem to effect one group primarily first, ie: Torts, loinsettas?
 
Re: Re: Lost or losing all my SPS - still not sure why.

Re: Re: Lost or losing all my SPS - still not sure why.

I'm a little suspicious of the angel, rabbit, and tang as well. I've had them for a long time though...


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10928197#post10928197 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
Could be. A new tank always equals new idiosyncrasies. I'd start be looking at your inverts. If you do not see exaggerated invert deaths, then you can rule out metal contamination. As a precaution, I'd still look for any potential metal contamination sources such as hose clamps over the sump.

I would also clean out all your pumps. Sometimes, calcium and other stuff will build up in your pumps to the point of cutting down the flow to about 50%. The build up adds friction which causes the impellors to slow down. It appears that flow may be lacking because the picture shows surface film (of course you may have shut them off for pics).

Soak the tunze screens in muriatic. Clean out the pumps really well. I'm only emphasizing this because I saw pics of your bathroom/fishroom several years ago. :D

I have a lot of snails and urchins that are all doing well in the tank, as well as a porcelain crab.

The tunzes are very clean, getting plenty of flow with them plus the return.

Not all the corals are getting patchy. But as far as those that are: Some corals have it on the tips, others progress from base up, others are randomly patchy. But most arent patchy at all, the tissue just kind of looks sanded off.
 
IMHO i think it's probably your majestic angel. i don't think they are reef safe. i've seen them in much bigger reef tanks and i do believe they eat corals but because those tanks are so big the corals replenish upon being pecked upon and also the angel has so many other corals to choose from. when did you add him to your tank and when did you notice your corals dying?
 
Also, make sure it's not your rabbit fish. I just had to pull a fox face out of my sps tank. Had him for 5 yrs. He turned bad. He was very fat and well fed. But he still would go for the acros every chance he got.
 
I went through just about the same thing that you are seeing right now. I lost 90% of my SPS corals before I started watching my tank from another room and low and behold it was my Majestic angel nipping from coral to coral up and down the tank.

Lesson learned for me NO MORE ANGELS no matter how "reef safe" they are supposed to be.
 
I would try to catch the Majestic in the act before convicting him. I've kept a Majestic in a reef before, with no problems, and there was a poll a few months back and at least for large angels, more people had luck with those than any other non-Genicanthus angel. He MAY be the culprit...but I wouldn't necessarily blame the poor guy just yet. If its really him you should be able to catch him in the act. Its not like angels are active at night.

jds
 
Really, I would love if it was the angel. That would be the simplest problem/solution. I have had the angel for 4 years, and the rabbit for two. Corals just started dying maybe 1.5 months ago. I hardly ever see him nip, but there is the occasional nip. Have never seen damage come of it.

Some time in the next few days I am going to move all remaining sps (all are showing signs, but some arent dead quite yet) into a separate tank with 100% new water, a few powerheads, and a light over it.
 
GFO is no the cause. GFO can cause changes in ALK and PH. If you monitor these particularly upon initial use then you shouldn' t have a problem. I am sick of hearing people blame things on GFO.

The problem is the angel and maybe even the rabbit. If the rabbit sees the angel nipping he may try as well. You could have 2 nippers. IMHO you definitely have one.

RANDOM spots...ask yourself why are they splotchy and "random"....well duh, because the fish is nipping randomly everywhere....

Do you have a separate tank. you could pull the angel and/or rabbit and QT them to see if it stops over a few weeks....my money says things will improve unless there is something silly you are overlooking
 
If you just moved all of your livestock to a new tank the surroundings that the fish were used to are no longer there. That itself coud be enough cause for your angeo to start nipping.
 
Like I said, I would love if it was that easy, and I am hoping it is. We will see. I dont think its that simple though, it might be them nipping in combination with something else. It's just weird that all the corals seem to be dying different ways. BTW, I also group the tang in with the angel and rabbit, historically I have seen him nip more than the other two (had to get rid of a clam because of him).

The green slimer is STNing from the tips. The blue tort has its mesenteries out, got blotchy, and after a few weeks RTNd. An insignis started STN from the base up, but then got that "sandpapered" look over the whole colony. Others just went straight to the sandpapered look (monti caps, cerealis, others). Others have traditional STN (ecorals tort, purple monster, others). I can pinpoint a few colonies which is probably due to the angel/rabbit/tang. The green tables tips are missing tissue and basically looks like it has been rubbed against something. But others just dont look like nipping damage. Unless of course the nipping causes enough stress to trigger these other symptoms. Not all the corals are blotchy, some are uniformly "sanded", or thinned tissue.

As of now the plan is to move all remaining corals into a 30g with brand new water, powerheads, heater, and a 175w retro over it. The water is mixing now, then I've got to get it to correct levels, so it should be a day or two.
 
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