Luminarcs -- Excellent!

[Tri916]

Its just a thought, I would love to see the numbers on it though. I wouldnt try it myself. Great thread opened my eyes on the LA3's.

 

[traveller7]

I recently the current 4 units straight back so I don't have to clean the front panel as much.

Wow thats what I get for popping in and not proofreading

I meant to say that I moved the current 4 units straight back about 3 inches so I don't have to clean the front panel as much

PS: hard to argue with DE bulbs when you need to get PAR into a small space ;>)

 

[just dave]

I might be off the subject but.. I wonder what the outcome would be like if you used a DE bulb with the LA3. Customize a bracket for DE holders and UV glass make to fit. Would you get better numbers using DE bulbs compare to DE with the LA3? I will get LA3's for next tank.

I think it would work fine as long as you centered the bulb. The newer L3s I just received are made to take lens as the older ones where not.

 

[mikeo1210]

However, I still don't see the reason behind the insistance of using a DE bulb when you get not only variety in color but also much better costs with the SE bulbs. Just a personal preference I guess.

The insistance is from people still having Sanjay's comments regarding a DE in a good pendant vs. an SE burned in their minds. They were the craze b/c it was felt that you could get near equal par values from a 250 watt bulb. Less electricity same par. I still think a DE in an ROIII on HQI is more concentrated over the center. The light is focused vs. spread. That being said you'd probably lose a lot of that in a giant pendant so it probably wouldn't make much sense. I'd disagree on the cost as the phoenix bulb is less then most SEs'.

 

[dgasmd]

The insistance is from people still having Sanjay's comments regarding a DE in a good pendant vs. an SE burned in their minds. They were the craze b/c it was felt that you could get near equal par values from a 250 watt bulb. Less electricity same par. I still think a DE in an ROIII on HQI is more concentrated over the center. The light is focused vs. spread. That being said you'd probably lose a lot of that in a giant pendant so it probably wouldn't make much sense. I'd disagree on the cost as the phoenix bulb is less then most SEs'.

What you are saying makes sense MIke. However, I do disagree on the price issues at least when generalizing. On average, and I stress that, the SE bulbs tend to be cheaper across the board. Things may have changed dramaticly since the last time I sat to do some math on paper, but when I last did a cost comparision per year including the electricity and bulb replacement costs it was obvious the SE bulbs the way to go. Then again, I am doing from the point of reference to a larger tank. In a smaller tank I can see how having a more concentrated area of intensity may be something more attractive.

 

[Big E]

From Sanjay--advanced aquarist August of '04.

"Further comparison with the 250W DE Lamps [Ref. 9 and a forth coming article] will reveal that there is no justification for the sweeping statement "250W DE lamps have more PPFD output than 250W Mogul base lamps".

PPFD(par) from Sanjay's table-----
250w Ushio on HQI-- 159
250w XM on HQI---182

AC 250w on HQI DE-82
phoenix 250w on HQI DE-85-88
XDE 10k DE on HQI-109
AB 10k DE on HQI-104

Just looking at some of those numbers tell me what bulbs have a higher par rating. I'm not sure why many people are so concerned with the par in a tight concentrated area as most reefers spread their corals throughout the tank.

XM bulbs run about $57 & last a year. Add the L3's & antinics looks like a nice inexpensive combination. Less bulbs more spread, less heat, ect.

Some of the manufacturers of SE bulbs have been recently coming out with 14k & 15k bulbs & I'm sure there will be more forthcoming.

If you want more blue you can buy 400w XM 20ks that give you a par in that 90-120 range without bothering with antinics. E-ballasts pull about 380 watts.

400w 10 XMs on HQI's.........200 PPFD. If someone has a deep wide tank this gives you all the par you want/need. Add L3's & antinics & I don't see a better combo for the users that like the 10k-antinic combination.

 

[kozmo02]

i wish they didnt charge so much for the socket, the socket assembly is like 35 bucks and the metal reflector by itself is like 85.

im also not sure why the "mini" and the regular are the exact same price, that doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[mikeo1210]

In a smaller tank I can see how having a more concentrated area of intensity may be something more attractive.

Concentrated and cheaper to run. I know where you guys are coming from and it doesn't make a great deal of sense to go and buy eight pendants and four dual ballasts to cover the same area as four La3s would in my 8' tank. I'm caving in where's Moonpod when you need him?

 

[mikeo1210]

From Sanjay--advanced aquarist August of '04.

From July '03
"An interesting comparison is the one between 250W DE systems and the 400W lamps reflector systems._ Since both used 10000K lamps (although from different manufactures, and of different styles), we could try to determine whether we can replace 400W systems with 250W DE lighting system._ This would be economically quite beneficial to the aquarist, in terms of savings in power and minimizing heat additions to the tank._ Interestingly when comparing the total incident light over the 3X3, 2X2 and 1X1 areas there is only a slight decrease in total incident light, while the lamp power is decreased by 37%._ Why is there such a disproportionate difference? One possible explanation could be that the 400W fixtures are not as efficient as the 250W DE fixtures ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ the small size of the DE lamp allows for better reflector design and allows more of the light to get out of the reflector. With the 400W systems, the larger size of the lamp envelope may be causing some of the light to reflect back into the lamp envelope._Another possible explanation may be that the metric being used (sum of the total light at all the measured points in the specified region) is not capturing this correctly._ A better metric may be the integration of the volume under the surface in the intensity distribution graphs._ This aspect of the comparison needs to be analyzed further since it has significant practical implications. For now we can make this comparison by visually analyzing the graphs showing the light intensity and distribution._"

This is older and obviously 400w fixtures have improved or Sanjay would have something else over his tank. This is some of what started the DE craze.

 

[dgasmd]

I remember this. What is funny is that what he says that should be explored to see if it has any merit was read by so many people as "we just need to do the research to prove it because we already know it is true".

Back to the reflector talk.

 

[Big E]

yep...remember that too........the further testing he has done since has changed a lot of that. His Reef Lighting page has armed most reefer's with plenty of info to make good decisions to fit their needs.

 

[mikeo1210]

Because a lot of people will read this and consider a switch for spread or other reasons I think this has its place in this discussion.

Not so sure what Sanjay was saying was misinterpreted. He was running these himself not too long ago.

Here's another blurb...
Here he directly compared 400 se to 250 de.

"Because the same setup and equipment was used, the lighting data for the 250-watt lamps can be directly compared to the 400-watt lamps"

"If you subscribe to the ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œmore PAR is betterââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ theory, then obviously the best choice is either the double-ended 10,000 K lamp or the 6500 K Iwasaki lamp. If you subscribe to the ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œmore blue is better because corals are found in water where the higher wavelengths are filtered outââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ theory, then itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s worth noting that the 6500 K Iwasaki lamp had higher output in the violet/blue range than the 10,000 and 20,000 K Coralife lamps. The double-ended 10,000 K lamp is the best combination, offering both the best PPFD and the more blue color many reef hobbyists are interested in."

 

[mikeo1210]

yep...remember that too........the further testing he has done since has changed a lot of that. His Reef Lighting page has armed most reefer's with plenty of info to make good decisions to fit their needs.

I guess it's changed he's using Luminarcs. Haven't seen any new direct comparisons. Maybe we will.

 

[just dave]

i wish they didnt charge so much for the socket, the socket assembly is like 35 bucks and the metal reflector by itself is like 85.

im also not sure why the "mini" and the regular are the exact same price, that doesn't make much sense to me.

The socket assy. isn't just a socket and some stamped sheet metal.
You get a regular mogul socket and a cast base that slides
into the groves of another bracket that attaches to the reflector and is used to hang the fixture. This slotted feature allows the bulbs to be positioned ,by sliding back and forth, dead center in the reflector.

 

[dgasmd]

I don't think he has changed hisposition on anything if remember correctly. A lot of the comments people read as his opinion where thoughts aloud asking for questions that further researched not done at the time yet would prove or disprove. He has been running the lumenarcs over the Penn Sate tank from the begining if I remember correctly. He has also been running 10,000K bulbs over it from the begining with the exception tha tit used to be Ushio and now it is XM. Overall, I think he has been pretty consistant, but I think others have been pretty incosistant at interpreting what he has said and done. I have heard him speak publicly more than once and not a single time has he said a personal opinion about it, which is pretty difficult in itself to do. We are human and we can't help it to throw in some prsonal bias.

 

[Travis]

I am debating possibly upgrading to LA3's in the future. I would like to fit them into my hood but it would be a very tight fit without an inch to spare. Do you need any clearance to adjust the bulb position? If I put them in my hood the end of the socket bracket would be flush against the edge of my canopy. Would this work?

 

[Tarasco1]

I'm also interested in upgrading, but worried about space concerns. How do people like the LA3 mini's? How do they compare to the originals?

 

[dgasmd]

I am debating possibly upgrading to LA3's in the future. I would like to fit them into my hood but it would be a very tight fit without an inch to spare. Do you need any clearance to adjust the bulb position? If I put them in my hood the end of the socket bracket would be flush against the edge of my canopy. Would this work?

Travis:

I just spent a couple of minutes looking at your site to remind myself of your canopy. I hate to tell you this, but you are likely going to have to re-do a lot of the canopy. Even if the inside of the canopy meausres 21" front to back and more than 10" top to bottom, they are not going to fit. The bracket that holds the bulbs sticks out a few inches and you will have to likely make a cut out for them to stick out of your canopy or you can make the canopy much wider fron to back and just fit them inside it. The fact that you have fans and a heat extractor there will help considerably as these reflectors tend to "cup" air under them and not allow blowing fans to dissipate the heat as much as the reflectors you have now. In the grand scheme of things with your set, it will mean literally nothing.

Go for them. It is money extremely well spent.

Alberto
PS: no more pictures of your girlfriend? Please don't tell me she RTN'ed:lol: :lol:

 

[dgasmd]

You can see what I am talking about in this picture of when I was building my light rack.

 

[Travis]

Thanks Alberto,

My hood is actually just short of 19" wide (inside dimensions) so if I do upgrade I would have to redo it anyways. I just want to get a "feel" for how I would need to redesign the canopy. I want to keep things fitting as tight as possible to minimize the space consumed and maximize the heat removing efficiency. Could you measure the width from the end of the bracket to the other side of the reflector for me? How do you adjust the bulb position? Do you reach into the bracket from the side or do you reach into it from the bottom? Or do you adjust it on the socket side where the bulb is? Basically, I'm just trying to figure out if it would be ok to have the end of the bracket flush with the wall of the hood.

Does anyone have the new cooled LA3's? I would love to see a pic of one if anyone has one.