Lysmata amboinensis larva

[Luis A M]

I hate secrets and believe that we should all help each other to crack/improve breeding of marine species.I won´t conceal any experience or technique I develop.
But I can not pass information or papers given to me by other people as confidential without permission of the owners.
I actually plan to write about the different crustacean larviculture approaches,including the technique I designed,in a larviculture forum I moderate elsewhere.
Regarding hydroids,changing water doesn´t help as they are sessile.I use an UV but the bulb was burnt once and that possibly let them take over the system.
You can scrap-siphon them out on a daily basis as they are very fast to come back.The best method was to move the larvae into a clean tank,but that was only possible when they were big and few

 

[The Cardinal]

Ok, that is a bit of a shame as I share your view that the whole community would benefit from a closer exchange of ideas. I hope you can ask for permission to release these "secrets" later on so we can start to exchange ideas and progress in the breeding of this species. I will let you know how the breeding with a kreisel works if you are interested (might be effective against hydroids for instance).

 

[Luis A M]

How true!But the fact is that two of the researching groups will conceal jealously their findings .Academic researchers don´t want to lose the honour of their discoveries and commercial researchers don´t want to share the revenues of their successes Only hobbyists will share .I´ve seen that so many times!
A kreisel type device,like those used with medusae or seahorse fry should work well,as they keep the larvae in suspension easing their swimming effort.There is an on-line article about kreisels for Lysmata larvae,I think debelius.

 

[Luis A M]

Interst finding

Interst finding

that I want to share with you.Through this thread you heard about pleopods,appendix interna (AI)and appendix masculina (AM).
Well,now it´s time to further explain what they are and how they work in the post larval-adult stages of the shrimp.
Pleopods are the swimmerettes,the fins under the pleon (abdomen,tail) that shrimps use for swimming and where eggs are attached.There are five pairs,and each one is split in two fins,the outer is the exopod and the inner the endopod.
AI is a finger like process of the endopods with a Velcro like structure at the tip.With it,both AI,right and left can stick together allowing the four fins of each pleopod pair to paddle together as a single piece.The pics below show how that works.If it is not easy to see,I will put names and arrows with Photoshop,let me know.

and for a closer look:

Sorry,again XL pics,I´m new with Photobucket!

Now the interesting thing.You see the banana shaped structure between the AI and the pleopod,with three large spines?.This is the AM,the male organ,which only shows in the 2nd pleop pair.It is well developed,about the same size of the AI,meaning that this "baby"is a male,perhaps fertile!:eek1:
The natural story of Lysmata shrimps so far known (peppermints) is different.Juveniles don´t have any external sexual characters,later they develope gradually the AM and become males.At last the ovary developes,the AM dissapears and the shrimp becomes hermaphrodite.
This shows that L.amboinensis settles in a PL not only much larger,but only more developed than the other species,skipping the inmature juvenile phase.
It would be interesting (though risky )to mate my shrimp with an adult,to check if it is fertile.
Now,if this shrimps settles with a full grown AM,it has to have developed during the last larval stages,exactly as Andy said above in this thread.

 

[Luis A M]

So you only like nice colorful pics...

So you only like nice colorful pics...

and not my boring pics of the shrimpy´s private parts or digressions about how they swim or the secrets of their sex life?
Well,here you´ve got it Baby shrimp after his first molt and now virtually looking like an adult.That´s it,enjoy!

 

[KUDA]

Wow!!! Amazing!!!

 

[aomont]

Great photos and great explanation Luis ! Cristal clear as they say !
Now I´m gonna have to go back and read everything from this thread again !
Anderson.

 

[leeweber85]

awesome job. What are you feeding the larvae and what type of setup do you use?

 

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9925400#post9925400 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by leeweber85
awesome job. What are you feeding the larvae and what type of setup do you use?

I think it was explained up in the thread.Sure,too long to read
Food was bbs and Otohime.

 

[Ricardo Calado]

Hi Luis

Congratulations!!!!

Nice work.

About the academics.... not all are the same. Me and Andy when we come up with the rearing system for the larvae of ornamental shrimps the firt thing we did was to publish a description (in a scientific journal, but is a difefrent story...) However i am sure that many other "academics" would just think about keeping it top secret qnd setting up a company...

Keep up the good work!

Ricardo

 

[Luis A M]

Thanks Ricardo and be WELCOME!!!!!
Glad you joined,you have so much to share with us!

 

[drmaz]

G'day Luis,

Let me first say congrats on your efforts with L. amboinensis. I love how detailed you are with your threads, its great to see someone finally talking in detail about raising L. amboinensis ( and I love the great pics) because up till now I have only found infomation that is fairly vague.

I think that you and I have a lot in common I have been breeding L. vittata, this is the Australian Peppermint Shrimp ( yes it dose it eat the nasty little aiptasia anemones ) for some time now. I have just started breeding L. amboinensis. My larva are now 12 days of age not sure on what number Z they are at (I still have 100 - 120 larva). I am also working on S. hispidus (I see you are also working on them ) and I have just brought a pair of L. debelius, but no eggs yet. Some people might say I am spreading myself to thin, but as this is my new full time job I know I can handle it. And I will be sharing any secretes I might discover along the way, as I am not like some other breeders out there who like to keep their secrets to them self.

I have a couple of Q's for you if you don't mind?

1. do you know where I can get a copy of Mark Wunsch paper ( or any other papers that may be of interest)? it sounds very interesting.
2. How are you taking such great photos are you using a camera or a camera on your microscope?

and I'm sure that I will have some more Q's later, but know I'm off the read your thread on S. hispidus

Thanks
Stan

 

[Luis A M]

Welcome Stan to RC! Lots of aussies around!
Thank you for the kind concepts.It is encouraging to get some feed back.Sometimes you doubt if somebody cares about your pics or observations
Something else in common;we´re both in winter. .Now my larval tanks are at 24º and each larval stage lasts 4 days or more.I raised my baby shrimp in summer and with 27º each stage was exactly 3 days.
As per your Qs:
You should first contact Bangor for a copy.I got mine from FIT,it is a xerox copy and pics are blurry and b&w,but drawings are fine.Perhaps somebody made a pdf of it,it is quite big.In the meantime you can ask me whatever particularly you are looking for.
I took my pics with microscopes and a cybershot,using an adaptor.

 

[Ricardo Calado]

Hi Stan

Wunsch's work is only good to identify the firts 6 or 7 stages of L. amboinensis. However, these stages dispaly morphological features that are almost universal to caridean shrimps. The ones that are really important (the latest zoeal satges) re not that easy to identify since larvae perform mark time molting (a series of molts on which the old exoskeleton is discarded but no or only slight morphological changes occur).

Basically you can identify a:

Zoea 1: Eyes fused with carapace
Zoea 2: Pedunculate eyes
Zoea 3: The exopods (external appendages) of uropods appear near the telson and the endopods (the inner appendages are rudimentar but visible).
Zoea4: The endopods of uropods are developped but smaller in lenght than the telson.
Zoea 5: The endopods of uropods are now longerthna the telson.

The other zoeal stages after Z5 can be differenced by the order of appearence of the perieopods and by watching if they are uniramous buds, biramous buds or fully functional. The common order of apperaence is P1, P5, P2, P3 and P4.

The last zoeal stages before metamorphosis can be diagnosed by the development of the pleopods

Megalopa = Samll shrimp = metamorphosis has ocurred
Last Zoea: Pleopods fully functional with several setae
Zoea before the Last: Pleopods are biramous but have a reduced number of setae
Zoea before: Pleopods are biramous buds
Zoea before: Pleopods are uniramous buds

From my experience, L. seticaudata displays the lowest number of larval stages: 9 in total

Some Lysmata species may display 11 or even 13 stages, but I, Andy (Andrew Rhyne) and two other Portuguese colleagues (Catia Bartilotti and Antonina dos Santos) are still working on their larval development and trying to see which Lysmata species are more closely related.

Good luck with your larviculture trials

Ricardo

 

[Luis A M]

Closing life cycle

Closing life cycle

My baby shrimp is now carrying eggs,less than two months after settling!:eek1:
This was very unexpected because I´ve been following closely his sexual development( it was he until now,now is it she or it?,luckily english has the neutral "it" ).
The shrimp is now in it´s 8th PL instar,i.e.it has molted 7 times since settlement.Only the 7th PL showed some subtle signs that it was starting the transitional phase,from male to hermaphrodite:AM became smaller than AI,which showed some few setae.Nothing else.Seems ovarian development went much faster than the corresponding changes in external morphology!

 

[drmaz]

Congratulations Luis,

Wow, what a great effort keep up the good work.

Stan

 

[Luis A M]

Thanks .Now,if eggs develop,we will find if "it"is fertile both as "she"and as "he"

I have now 9 larvae in the 11th zoeal stage.Hopefully,I will be able to document the last larval stages,which was not possible in my previous description.

 

[Luis A M]

ZOEA 12

ZOEA 12

This is the 12th zoea,at 46 days.
Pleopod buds are biramous.Exopod has a terminal seta.

Closer look:

 

[melev]

Congratulations on a job well done! I just found out about this thread tonight and you've gone beyond most people's expectations in your details & documentation. Half the words and codes you've used 'are greek to me' but I still enjoyed your thread. :thumbsup:

 

[Luis A M]

Thanks Marc!
Crustacean biologists are notorious for the many times unnecessary complicated terminology.But if you read all the thread,you will notice that all terms were explained and when possible changed for words everybody could understand.