Macro algae and LEDs

[ToLearn]

With one of the biggest companies in the industry now marketing their LEDs to LFS stating, "The reef geeks were all switching their refugiums over to our new LEDs". I wondered if there was any validity to this statement or if it was just another sales pitch.

A friend of mine needs to replace his old salt encrusted 3 bulb power compact fixture and I was curious what the best light fixture would be to replace it. I'm thinking LEDs may be the best option and I am sure more white the blue would be best.

What is the best LED fixture for a fuge and is going with LEDs a good option?

 

[Vang025]

I understand that a lot of people are switch to LEDs for their DTs due to their superior technology but I don't think much people are switching out their fuge lighting to LEDs unless they are filthy rich. If your fuge requires high lighting it may be a good choice but if you don't keep anything fancy in the fuge, just go with the good ol' regular lighting.

 

[ToLearn]

Rich? LEDs are not expensive. If you own a house in America you probably already have 20 around the house and if not you can go to the dollar store and get 20 for a dollar or if you a patient you can order thousands for China for less then 20 bucks. High end bright LEDs with the right spectrum and creating enough PAR 24" through the water column to grow SPS might cost a pretty penny, but as you pointed out you don't need super high light for algae. There also really isn't regular old lighting.

I'm surprised this hasn't been talked about over and over again on RC.

 

[AuroraDrvr]

Because LEDs really are not that good.

Look at the basic cheap LED setup.

Marineland Reef Capable LED fixture, basically the cheapest "real" fixture. It uses a bunch of good LEDs and it still has HORRIBLE PAR ratings. 130 @ 12" is the high. This light would be okay at best for refugium use. If someone wanted to use it for a display algae/grass tank, it'd be worthless.

A single 23W CFL bulb puts out 1600 Lumens, more than the entire 18-24" Marineland LED fixture produces (1305 respectively). So, you're replacing a $5 bulb and $5 fixture with a $200 LED setup, which still simply does not get the job done. You're paying a 2000% markup for less product.

 

[Amphiprion]

Those Marineland fixtures aren't bright at all. However, the higher spec fixtures out there are extremely bright--brighter than many halide setups. They definitely work, but the right LEDs, optics, etc. have to be used. I'm waiting on higher efficiency (and cheaper) warmer spectra LEDs to come out on the market (as well as the price to decrease a bit more) before I invest.

 

[chasekwe]

I use an AquaIllumination White fixture over my sump. Rocks the cheato growth for sure.

 

[uhuru]

Because LEDs really are not that good.

Look at the basic cheap LED setup.

Marineland Reef Capable LED fixture, basically the cheapest "real" fixture. It uses a bunch of good LEDs and it still has HORRIBLE PAR ratings. 130 @ 12" is the high. This light would be okay at best for refugium use. If someone wanted to use it for a display algae/grass tank, it'd be worthless.

A single 23W CFL bulb puts out 1600 Lumens, more than the entire 18-24" Marineland LED fixture produces (1305 respectively). So, you're replacing a $5 bulb and $5 fixture with a $200 LED setup, which still simply does not get the job done. You're paying a 2000% markup for less product.

Thats like saying metal halide is not that good and then using a 75w 20K bulb as an example. You can't generalize all LED's like that.

 

[ToLearn]

Not really getting the answers I hoped for. I didn't mean to start this as a general debate on LEDs. I'm looking at getting enough light to grow macros in 12" or less of water in a fuge. There are better products out then Marineland's LED fixtures for sure.

How about Vertex Illumilux Dolce Bianco All White(7000K)? 6 Cree XPE LEDs. This would be a lot brighter then the Marinelands and much less then half the cost of AI. It also has a more appropriate spectrum I believe. Any thoughts on using these?

 

[AuroraDrvr]

Thats like saying metal halide is not that good and then using a 75w 20K bulb as an example. You can't generalize all LED's like that.

Okay, find me another LED setup that's anywhere in the ball park price range?

You can't.

 

[AuroraDrvr]

Not really getting the answers I hoped for. I didn't mean to start this as a general debate on LEDs. I'm looking at getting enough light to grow macros in 12" or less of water in a fuge. There are better products out then Marineland's LED fixtures for sure.

Most definitely there are much better LED fixtures out there than the Marineland, at much more the cost.

Is it really worth spending $400 on a sump lighting setup? To some sure, but most, not really.

A good LED setup would be more then sufficient for Macros. My only point was that the good ones are expensive.

 

[mil hse]

My buddy's has 10 sunbrite led bulbs over his 150 and his par reading is 500 at the top and something like 320 at the bottom and his lights are 14" above the water line... It really just depends on which ones you go with.

 

[ToLearn]

mil hse a 150g refugium? That's a huge fuge. For the rest of us with normal size fuges... back to topic.

Todd your not helping much. Thanks for your opinion, but looking for others. The MSRP on the fixture I mentioned was $170. Far cry from the $400 and since it could last 60,000 hours it's a heck of a lot more affordable then buying ANY other type of fixture even if you are just looking at bulb cost and ignoring the electric you save.

Let me now say ignoring cost up front or in the long run, will LEDs grow healthy macro algae. How well do people think the fixture I mentioned, the Vertex Illumilux, do?

 

[AuroraDrvr]

mil hse a 150g refugium? That's a huge fuge. For the rest of us with normal size fuges... back to topic.

Todd your not helping much. Thanks for your opinion, but looking for others. The MSRP on the fixture I mentioned was $170. Far cry from the $400 and since it could last 60,000 hours it's a heck of a lot more affordable then buying ANY other type of fixture even if you are just looking at bulb cost and ignoring the electric you save.

Let me now say ignoring cost up front or in the long run, will LEDs grow healthy macro algae. How well do people think the fixture I mentioned, the Vertex Illumilux, do?

Alright, off the price topic.

The 12" Vertex Illumilux with 6 CREE 3W XPE bulbs produces about the same light as the 18" Marineland setup, maybe a marginal amount more, but nothing great.

It would be okay for refugium use.

 

[zero26]

Have you thought of building your own LED light? rapidled.com has some great prices.

 

[ToLearn]

If someone could tell me what specifically to use and that it would work best over a fuge.... I'd spend 20 minutes finding the closest fixture made by a proven company that will stand behind their warranty and buy it there. Not a DIYS type myself. I do some things, but leave this sort of things to the pros. It's a personal decision and I would rather not discuss or debate that in this thread.

 

[Vang025]

Rich? LEDs are not expensive. If you own a house in America you probably already have 20 around the house and if not you can go to the dollar store and get 20 for a dollar or if you a patient you can order thousands for China for less then 20 bucks. High end bright LEDs with the right spectrum and creating enough PAR 24" through the water column to grow SPS might cost a pretty penny, but as you pointed out you don't need super high light for algae. There also really isn't regular old lighting.

I'm surprised this hasn't been talked about over and over again on RC.

Well, if are LEDs are not expensive for you, just get that Vertex Illumilux, its only what? ~$150... 7000K is right around the preferred plant spectrum OR you can uses those 20 something inexpensive LEDs that you find around the house, GL with that.

 

[uhuru]

I just hooked up an Aqua Illumination Sol White over my display macro/seagrass tank. I'll let you guys know how it goes. This is replacing a 250w Iwasaki 6500K. I'm starting off slow with lights at 30% because I have a couple of goniopora frags in the tank. I may have to add some warm spectrum spotlights over the seagrass the MH was definitely warmer spectrum even compared to white alone.

I keep my tanks at cooler than normal temps so for me it was a choice of getting a bigger chiller and paying more for electricity or see if I can save money in the long run with LED.

 

[Samala]

Uhuru please do keep us updated. I'm very interested to see if there is a difference in lighting with LEDs over MH or T5HO. All lights just aren't equal.. even those matched for wattage, PAR readings, temperature, and such. I swear I see differences, but maybe I'm just looking for them.

>Sarah

 

[ToLearn]

Sarah are you using AI lighting as well? What ever you are using, how long have you been using it? I have yet to find a single person who has LEDs over macro algae and can share a month or more of experience with them.

I wouldn't care so much if the macros took on a slightly different growth pattern or grew 10% slower. Would be nice to know, but the biggest thing is I don't want to order a pricey lighting system and have the macros crash a week later.

 

[uhuru]

The person that runs this blog has been using LED over his tank for a while now:

http://fourcubed.net/wpu/blog/category/reef-keeping/seagrass-lagoon-biotope/