Manifold off of drain line.. what do you guys think?

[nick12881]

I am planning out the plumbing for my next build and I had an idea for a manifold. I want to "T off" from one of my drains and build in a three stage manifold to feed 2 NextReef MR1 reactors and one more for future needs. The drain will be one inch and then I will probably step down to a 3/4 inch spears gate valve, then a barbed fitting for the flex hose into the reactors. Then the reactors will output into the return area of the sump and back up to the DT.

I feel like there should be more than enough flow to run the reactors. They need low flow for GFO and carbon anyway. I don't really like the idea of running the manifold from the return because of the loss of flow to the main tank and the idea of basically looping the same water around. just seems kinda less efficient to me.

What do you guys think?

 

[mrx66699]

You are correct young grasshopper ....I run 6 of of my drain lines ....I would recommend you use a little different hardware though.....the gate valves are ok here but I found out the ball valves work just as good in this application as you will not be adjusting them often at all I think I set mine a year ago and they have not been touched since.....I would also scrap the idea of the hose barb .....very inefficient to move or change and can come off.....I would go with JG quick connect valves and then the hard hose that fits....I changed out all the connections on my Next Reef Monster reactors and calcium reactors to QC valves ....just tap the threaded hole to match the size of QC valve you are using...I like the 1/2 ones as its a standard size and seems to give good flow for whatever application you chose....put 3 1 in t's inline on the drain line then use slip x threaded 1 in bv coming off the t then step it down with threaded 1 x 1/2 threaded x threaded reducer then thread in the QC valve and your done now anytime you wish just disconnect fast and efficiently.....your welcome to come see anytime

Here you go you can see 3 valves in the top pic and that's the carbon and the gfo coming out on the filter pad....sorry bout the mess in the pic I have since organized them this was when I first put them in

 

[nick12881]

you think the gate valves are just not worth the extra money in this application? Anyway you could send me a pic of your setup when you have a minute. Love to see the quick connect valves

 

[leveldrummer]

Send all your water through your skimmer/filter socks (if you have them) first, this will remove the bulk of organics. Then run it through your reactors from your return. your media will last longer and work more better until you replace it this way.

With running your drains, you have very little control if you need to run stronger flow through the media, and the media will fill and stop cleaning faster with the dirtiest water from your drain.

If your worried about your flow rates from your return, you should not be. You shouldnt be getting the majority of flow from your return pump anyway, and you can always use a slightly larger pump to offset the flow through reactors.

 

[nick12881]

Just looked up the JG's.. Use those all the time on RO units, they are great. Thats an awesome idea. Way easier for maintenance too

 

[mrx66699]

Send all your water through your skimmer/filter socks (if you have them) first, this will remove the bulk of organics. Then run it through your reactors from your return. your media will last longer and work more better until you replace it this way.

With running your drains, you have very little control if you need to run stronger flow through the media, and the media will fill and stop cleaning faster with the dirtiest water from your drain.

If your worried about your flow rates from your return, you should not be. You shouldnt be getting the majority of flow from your return pump anyway, and you can always use a slightly larger pump to offset the flow through reactors.

Incorrect ....I run over 7000 gal thew the filtration system an hour and they clog no sooner or run threw media faster ....and I run no filter socks at all just filter media drip and that's at the end before the returns.....you may think they would but its not a factor that you will even notice ....100 % of all your water doesn't pass threw the skimmer either 50% or more is just going right back into the dt ....further more you will save on electric and run your return pumps more efficiently ...


Now if you want to debate polishing the water more efficiently with a 10 micron sock as opposed to the filter pad I wouldn't argue that but its again less efficiently doing things $ wise and socks are a pita imo ....

 

[mrx66699]

you think the gate valves are just not worth the extra money in this application? Anyway you could send me a pic of your setup when you have a minute. Love to see the quick connect valves

Gate will give you finer control but I haven't seen that I needed that fine of a tune yet ....if you have the space and don't mind the cost it won't hurt....if you go with the bv though use the ones from lowes the hd ones can stick ...I do use them but they can and do stick from time to time just use the lowes ...

 

[blackthunda77]

Im with level drummer. More effective running it off your return. Depending on how complicated your manifold is or if you add more components later, they only thing pushing through your flow is gravity. You have more pressure if you T it off your return and you'l have more ability to fine tune the flow rates.

 

[leveldrummer]

Incorrect ....I run over 7000 gal thew the filtration system an hour and they clog no sooner or run threw media faster ....and I run no filter socks at all just filter media drip and that's at the end before the returns.....you may think they would but its not a factor that you will even notice ....100 % of all your water doesn't pass threw the skimmer either 50% or more is just going right back into the dt ....further more you will save on electric and run your return pumps more efficiently ...


Now if you want to debate polishing the water more efficiently with a 10 micron sock as opposed to the filter pad I wouldn't argue that but its again less efficiently doing things $ wise and socks are a pita imo ....

There is no reason to run 7000 GPH through your sump, If you match your return pump closely to your skimmer, thats really all you need. Most flow should come from powerheads/closed loops. You're blasting so much water through your sump, you could easily get away with a much much smaller return and have your tank use less power.

If you put a filter sock on all your drains for a week and check it, that is the material that is clogging your reactor materials. all that gunk is stopping your media from processing the water as good as it can.

Your return pump will run just fine no matter if its pushing through a manifold or not. it doesnt care if 100% of water is going to the display or if 75% is going to display and 25% through a few reactors. Some studies show pumps run slightly more efficiently with a little restriction on them anyway.

 

[nick12881]

Honestly, flow should not be an issue even if I use the manifold. I have a Reeflo snapper/dart gold as the return pump. I think I am more or so concerned about reprocessing the same water over again. If I "t" off the return then through manifold then right back into the return section, seems like I am looping the same water alot..

 

[leveldrummer]

Honestly, flow should not be an issue even if I use the manifold. I have a Reeflo snapper/dart gold as the return pump. I think I am more or so concerned about reprocessing the same water over again. If I "t" off the return then through manifold then right back into the return section, seems like I am looping the same water alot..

Thats really not a big deal. Doesnt your skimmer dump the clean water right back ontop of the intake? So the clean water gets processed and cleaned again. Not a huge issue.

 

[nick12881]

That's true

 

[mrx66699]

There is no reason to run 7000 GPH through your sump

Ok I edited the original as maybe I was being too harsh but please reframe from making this statement without knowing the volume of a system ...let me educate those that would like to know a good rule of thumb for volumes of water to pass entirely through a filtration system and how it is applied (following a 6-10 rate) your entire volume of your system should flip around 6-10 times per hour through your filtration.....if you gathered your background information correctly you would see 700gal system volume = 7000gal per hour flip.....and now that we are past the ****ing contest please gather your background information correctly before giving misinforming blanket statements just trying to make a point ...

Most flow should come from powerheads/closed loops.

Again off track not once did I mention flow in the DT, flow through a filtration system was being discussed in my post

You're blasting so much water through your sump, you could easily get away with a much much smaller return.

Again more misinformation as you have no clue the volume of my system or the background information on the hardware being used ....how would you have any idea what I should or shouldnt be passing through my sump....Here let me show you. In your own words I should match the skimmer pumps to the volume of my return pumps ....so lets see the skimmer has 1 4000gph main pump and 1 3000gph salve pump oh wait thats .....wait for it....wait for it 7000gph wow what a coincidence. Thats exactly what you just tried saying here not to do or was it to do ........in one sentence you are saying dont pass 7000gph through my sump and in the very next your saying match the return pumps to the skimmer pumps which would call for 7000gph (which by the way wasn't the reference that was used when this system was built or hardware purchased)

If you put a filter sock on all your drains for a week and check it, that is the material that is clogging your reactor materials.

More misinformation ...when did anyone ever say my reactors ever clogged lol
You should also read up on how much nitrates are produced from socks left in a system just one more day than should be but thats for another discussion

here if you would like to learn a few facts on sumps and filtrations I pulled this up for you ....they may take them down or not but enjoy reading while its up...

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/newbie/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-01/gt/index.htm
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/gt/index.htmhttp://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-07/gt/index.htm
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-07/gt/index.htm

 

[marke]

Just a question? Don't beat me up Matt. Is it possible for these reactors to clog or significantly slow down the flow from the dt causing the dt to overflow since the water won't be able to drain fast enough into the sump?

 

[mrx66699]

Marc if you are using a valve to back pressure and did not have sufficient other drains then that could be a possibility I supose unless they were using a full syphon drain as this if sized properly will outrun the pump...ie a beananimal setup ...it would all depend on the other drains and how they are running the entire drain system ....I am using two reflow super gold darts 4300 gph each with 2 x 2 in from 4x1.5 and I have to dial the drains back 1/2 way each or they outrun the pumps

 

[Biggar]

I dont know about you guys, but my gfo and carbon reactors barely run any water through them. Maybe 150-200 GPH. Upsize your pump if you have concerns. Dont skimp on flow ( ;

From a clogging perspective
Scenario 1
If you run filter socks and manifold off your return pump, there will less clogging issues

than
Scenario 2
You run no filter socks and returns are used to supply manifold.

Clogging will depend on your feeding habits too. Lots of variables due to every setup is different.

Let me add this. I clog my carbon reactor even when running manifold off return pump. So, I know it would clog quicker the other way around. Im also a reef chili junky.

 

[marke]

I have to dial the drains back 1/2 way each or they outrun the pumps


Matt what do you mean when you say the drains if fully open will outrun the pump? I thought you want that to happen?

 

[blackthunda77]

I dont understand how you would out drain the pump? The drain will only drain as much as the pump can pump. Out pumping a drain, that i understand.

 

[mrx66699]

I dont understand how you would out drain the pump? The drain will only drain as much as the pump can pump. Out pumping a drain, that i understand.

patients young grasshopper ......learning you still are.....when a drain outruns the pump that is when you are getting that awful sucking sound as the pipe is trying to pull in more water than is available

 

[blackthunda77]

patients young grasshopper ......learning you still are.....when a drain outruns the pump that is when you are getting that awful sucking sound as the pipe is trying to pull in more water than is available

Thanks but in actuality i have a few more years of this under my belt than you, but we dont have to get into that. LOL. :love2:

I dont consider that out running the pump just because you have air going down your drain, most systems perform like that out of the box anyways. If your running a herbie style return and dont want air coming in then i guess. But if your running a standard stand pipe or durso you wouldnt be "outrunning" the pump, sucking in air just goes with the territory in regards to that. When one thinks of "outrunning" a pump, you would think of the tank draining too quickly and eventually overflowing the tank. Kind of like a boat sinking because the bilge isnt big enough to keep up with the incoming water. So outrunning a pump would essentially never happen since the return is only draining as much as the pump is returning.

Outrunning the drain, thats a different story....