Marine Vascular Plant Tank! Samala need urs and others help!

F

Fishfreak218

New member
OK, well at first i started looking into mangroves and i decided i wanted a Mangrove Tank.. so im planning a 75g. Mangrove Bio-tope and now i want a Seagrass Bio-tope also.. the reason for not doing them in one combined tank is that i want some smaller fish in the Mangrove and i have to have a place to put my Leaf fish.. so they will go into a seperate tank with Seahorse and Marine Vascular Plants.... Now this thread is about the 30g. Cube Marine Vascular Plant tank... ok well here are my questions for now:
1.If i use Mud collected localy do i have to worry about Parasites with my Captive Bred Seahorses??

2. What kind of Seagrasses should I start with?

3. I understand that seagrasses need flow, but seahorses dont like TO much flow so how can/should i accomidate both?? As in what turnover rate should it be.. like 7x turnover?? or less or more??

4. Is a sandbed of 6" enough?

5. Can i collect Seagrass localy? Is there a law against it in Florida?? (samala.. did u have to get a permit when u did?)

6. Should i get any sandsifters???

7. Arent DSB's bad for small tanks... will i run into problems??

8. I would really like to have Hallophilia [sp].. any special requirments???

Thank you so much. and also Samala your website was VERY informative... thank you... ALSO... Im sorry for in burst of posts in the forum im just getting really intersted... also lighting will be 150w MH maybe 6500k but probably 10k b.c. i will have corals.. and also it has 130w PC.... im not sure.. i might do 6500k with the 130w PC actinic?? anyone have any light color recemendations (like a combination) thanks in advance
-josh
 
Last edited:
I'll attempt a few answers

1. dont know
2. I started with thallasia, most are difficult to come by, so you may want to research what is readily available.
3. Depending upon seagrass species, some may tolerate low flow better than others, seahorses require low flow so you may want to find low flow tolerant seagrass, or give up on the seahorses.
4. 5 or 6 inch SB is minimum for seagrass.
5. I believe seagrass collection from seagrass beds is illegal without a permit unless it washes up on the shore.
6. Yes
7. DSB's arent bad for small tanks it is just difficult to maintain appropriate infauna for it to function properly, but a seagrass environment is a completely different animal from a reef tank, and I wouldnt be concerned. It would be a good idea to add a good sand bed recharge every now and then.
8. Dont know.

Hope I've been helpful
 
Re: Marine Vascular Plant Tank! Samala need urs and others help!

Wow Josh! This is very exciting. Dont worry about posting lots of threads or anything else in this forum.. the more questions the better I feel, at least you're asking them whereas many people wouldn't. :)

What are the dimensions on the 30g cube? And, for clarity, you're going with a 150w MH 10kK <i>and</i> 130w PC or doing one or the other? I would be tempted to go MH on this tank, since it will need to be a little taller to accomodate your SH.

I'm sure you've done all the homework on the seahorses, but just to be clear, you'll start with H. erectus, right? Are these going to come from seahorsesource.com down in your area? The more background you can give me on the seahorses and where they are from (what breeder) the better I can advise on potential pathogens. H. erectus native to the area, for example, should have no issues.

Water flow/movement, is a bit of a dilemma with SH. Seagrasses will grow without much flow at all, but this encourages detritus and biofilms to form on the leaves, which restricts light availability, and isnt a really ideal situation. You need flow to disrupt the nutrient gradients in the tank for the seagrasses and to suspend detritus. You can get high turnover in the tank without high velocity by dispersing the output of the water over a wider area.. such as a spraybar. You might want to look at this, this one and this (wow, a year old already) from the website. A powerhead that rotates might also be an idea. It really only gets critical when the 'grass density gets really high, as in my tanks currently. Otherwise about 10x turnover with just enough velocity to the get the grass leaves to bend/sway is enough. H. zosterae in a setup with movement like this did beautifully. You can always resort to manually disrupting detritus on the leaves with your fingers/hand too if you cant manage it with water flow b/c of the SH.

Substrate.. whew.. a big topic. Six inches will definitely be enough if you intend to keep all the available species. You will want to collect wild mud from the shallows near seagrass beds (you're so lucky to be in FL!). Give me a few days and I'll go into more detail with this. ;)

The short and long of collection legalities is yes, you can collect it, but you have to apply for the permits. In addition to the saltwater fishing license (which doesnt allow for grass collection but which you'll still need) check here and scroll down to the aquatic section. Even though you will very likely not be using the plants for buisness purposes I would still go to this length just to have the documentation. You will still generally be limited to collecting fragments from beach wrack. Thalassia is offlimits in some areas even with this permit as is Halophila johnsonii (again, at the time I inquired). Dont limit your research on this to what I've noted here though, I would hate to have left off something important and for you to run into trouble because of my bad memory!

Sandsifters.. confession.. I dont have any. There are some small worms in the bed but there are no real sand sifters. In fact, I hesitate to call a seagrass bed in an aquarium a DSB. Sure, its a deep sand bed, but its not the same idea. We're not trying to sink/export nutrients in the bacteria/sand, we're trying to provide nutrients and a good growing medium for the plants. Some amount of sand movement would likely be a good idea to avoid overly anoxic soil I suppose.. but then seagrass comes from anoxic soils in the wild. They'll do just fine in it. Really, its a big grey area. I dont know enough to advise mainly because the oldest bed I have is just eleven months, not enough to know any long term problems (like the three to four year DSB 'crash' phenomenon).

No real special requirements for Halophila. Stargrass is probably the easiest available seagrass to maintain. There are two species off WPB coast that you should be able to find very very easily.

PS: I'm glad the website was helpful to you. Keep your eyes peeled for the upcoming issue of Reefkeeping for an article on seagrass, which I hope is equally informative.

>Sarah
 
Ok Im going with the 150w MH AND the 130w PC.. the dimensions of the 30g. cube is 20x18x21 (LxWxH) ... Yes the seahorses are from DanU i am not sure what kind yet... either H. Kuda or H. Erectus.... (i couldnt decide so im going there with an open mind and seeing which ones i like better)..... All other questions will be answered later.. i ave to go to church and the LFS so when i get back ill answer the other questions Samala
 
I would lean towards Dan's H. erectus, they're native to the area and should be fine with the wild collected mud just in case pathogens like Vibrio can be transported with substrate. Honestly, I went with a license just to be totally safe. Why not call them up and ask what you need to collect a few plants? :)

PS: that is a LOT of light. I dont think you need it all. A single 150w 10kK is likely to be enough.

>Sarah
 
but its already a fixture i own... is it too strong?? also what formula do you use for the CO2 that you add to your tank??? TIA
-josh
 
It's not too strong just more than enough, so if you wanted you could not use the PC and save alittle on the power bill.
 
and.. are Seagrasses any good for nutrient export? or should i have a Refugium set-up??? thanks so much
AND... i can add the sand before the tank is cycled right??
-josh
 
Last edited:
I just sent Florida Wildlife and Game an e-mai that read:
I am 14 years old and have kept fishtanks for 4 years now. Im looking into setting up a Seahorse tank with Marine Vascular Plants such as Hallophillia and Shoal Grass. Im also interested in Macroalgea such as Caulerpa Prolifera. I am also interested in setting up another bio-tope aquarium with Mangroves and certain fish. I know it is illegal to collect Mangrove Trees but the Propogules are ok (as long as no leafs or roots have grown) right? Also Im looking into collecting some mud for the 2 Tanks and some cool invertebrates like certain shrimps/snails. Do I need a permit or license to collect saltwater invertebrates, fish, Marine Vascular plants, mud, and macroalgea?
I understand some types of Hallophilia are illegal to collect, which kinds? Is there a list somewhere that shows what is illegal to collect?
Thanks in advance
-Josh A.

did i leave anything out??
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7095407#post7095407 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fishfreak218
LOL is it ok to do like 10k MH and do PC actinic?? or would that be too blue??
Click to expand...

I think you would be fine with that setup, but you may want to look into a lower k bulb like 6500k, and run the actinic for better visual appearance. Just a suggestion.

and.. are Seagrasses any good for nutrient export? or should i have a Refugium set-up??? thanks so much
AND... i can add the sand before the tank is cycled right??
Click to expand...

The seagrasses arent really good for export unless you can get them to grow fast enough and regularly prune them. For nutrient export you would be better of with a fast growing macro. On the other hand you may want to hold off on the macro until you've determined what the uptake of the seagrass is. It all depends upon how much you'll be feeding any livestock. you may or may not need the extra export of macros.

I think your letter sounds fine ( innocent and inquisitive ). Whatever the answer/outcome is I would have a copy of your letter plus their answer and whatever necessary permits and liscences in hand while you're collecting just in case.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7095450#post7095450 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fishfreak218
i can add the sand before the tank is cycled right??
-josh
Click to expand...

Missed this one, I generally prefer to add the sand first to help keep the sandstorm down, just make sure your water is premixed to the proper SG before it's added and add it slowly on a saucer or something similar. Live sand should be added after the cycle is finished.
 
thanks graveyard
Im talking about sand/mud collected from the wild... so before cycle or after cycle?? Wouldnt it cause a mini cycle or another cycle if i add it after the LR cycles????
also here is a layout of the tank.. the clover looking things are Haliophila and the Grass looking things are Shoal Grass... i hope this one didnt come out blurry:
sw8sc3.jpg


well the picture is blurry so if you have any questions.. please ask
 
in this tank.. most likly.. maybe mix in some other sande.,.. in the mangrove tank.. no...
actually that unidentified macro is the same red one that u had.. u got this macro and a sun coral that day.... did u ever figure out what kind it was??
 
Still just gracilaria sp. You could cure the LR in a seperate container. Add the sand/mud first then water then rock after its cured.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ClownBubbaJoe
Large Crab For Special Tank And Few Fish & Plants ?
Replies
3
Views
196
griss
griss
K
More help needed for this newbie...
Replies
6
Views
572
vlangel
vlangel
C
Building a Sea Horse tank with sump from ground up
Replies
4
Views
197
Dustin07
D
xLennie
Urgent. Please Help
Replies
15
Views
369
HumbleFish
HumbleFish
banthonyb71
need to make an emergency build purchase for own personal health
2
Replies
24
Views
565
dochoot
D
Back
Top