Matt's 5000ltr Display

[dave.m]

Two float switches in the surge tank controll the length of the surge. The first is triggered at the top when the tank is full and opens the ball valve allowing the surge to begin. The second switch is triggered when the tank is almost empty, closing the ball valve before air is allowed to enter into the pipework and so (hopefully) removes the sound of the surge and also the tiny bubbles they usually create.

Matt, I am having trouble understanding this. Wouldn't there be some water left in the drain pipes from the surge bucket? Wouldn't this still be above the tank's water level? If so, wouldn't gravity cause it to fall resulting in bubbles?

Being a totally visual person, I am wondering if you have already drawn this device in operation. It would be helpful if you could post it if you have it.

Thx,

Dave.M

 

[d3hree]

Quite like the look of the sand samples. Don't fancy the rinsing though. Is the larger grain size within the params for a DSB? have you consulted the expert?

Don't jinx my car, other than not wanting to go into any gear for 2 mins while i was dropping friends to the airport (should have seen their faces) its been totally fine since i had the work done. Still, only done 250 miles since then. I don't need Ash making RAC jokes about me just because you've trashed your Alfa!

Ha Ush.
I wont trash your car mate. Having had 2 alfas I know how it feels.
I havent consulted the DSB expert. i havent been able to block out 15 hours in the diary for that conversation but the grain size is all good.

Matt, I am having trouble understanding this. Wouldn't there be some water left in the drain pipes from the surge bucket? Wouldn't this still be above the tank's water level? If so, wouldn't gravity cause it to fall resulting in bubbles?

Being a totally visual person, I am wondering if you have already drawn this device in operation. It would be helpful if you could post it if you have it.

Thx,

Dave.M

Dave I will sort out the pictures for you. Essentially because the surge exit is underwater and no air can enter via the surge tank the pipe will have water in it.

 

[jay9]

I didnt want either the noise nor the bubbles so I have opted for the expensive route for a surge using an actuated ball valve.

is this why we maybe not going on holiday this year...???:hmm5:

and Ash ... she would rather play with a bucket and spade on a hot beach (abroad before you say we have one)... than in a plastic tub in the garage:spin1:

 

[d3hree]

^^^ my wife ladies and gentlemen, from here on in everything in this hobby is ridiculously cheap and i would appreciate it if we could avoid at all costs any mention of prices in this thread!!

 

[jay9]

Really ...!!! that cheap ....!!!! .. will be tagging along :spin2:

 

[dave.m]

Jay, you cannot believe how much respect I have for Matt for doing so much of the build himself. The amount of money he would have had to pay someone else to design and build this tank would have been quite astronomical. His planning and foresight, as well as his keen intuitive sense of where to find bargains is truly inspirational. I'm sure you will both be well pleased with the result of this build.

Cheers!

Dave.M

P.S. Matt, yes, PayPal would be fine.

 

[zoney]

and Ash ... she would rather play with a bucket and spade on a hot beach (abroad before you say we have one)... than in a plastic tub in the garage:spin1:

I wasnt talking about the sand pit in the garage i was thinking more of that HUGE one that going in what was the dining room :lmao: and i can guarantee there wil lbe plenty of sun light lol :beachbum: :lolspin:

 

[KROS]

Oh no.. been rumbled and only 9 pages into the build!

I had thought that about the surge pipe getting air in, but as long as the outlet remains under water (i'm guessing even with the surge tank filling it will always be under the surface)
Then you get that vacuum effect the same as putting your finger over the top of a straw in your drink and being able to pick the liquid up.
Or in reefy terms, putting your thumb over the sucking end of a siphon tube and the water staying in there.

 

[dave.m]

Or in reefy terms, putting your thumb over the sucking end of a siphon tube and the water staying in there.

Yes, but that only works if there is no movement in the tank's water. Usually the least movement in the water that would either jiggle the drain pipe or cause flow across the bottom of the drain pipe would perturb the suction in the pipe and cause it to empty.

Dave.M

 

[zoney]

I maybe wrong but i think Matt intends to put his expensive oppps i mean cheap electronic ball valve close to the surface of the tank that way when it opens most of the pipe work is already full of water there for minimising the amount of air getting into the tank . But if he aint thats one way of stopping it

 

[dave.m]

Yes, it's incredible the way Matt can develop such an advanced design for so little money. Truly an inspiration to us all. :thumbsup:

Dave.M

 

[aquaph8]

Very cool thread. Your renderings are amazing. Very interesting stuff, cant wait to see more.

 

[d3hree]

Thanks for the comments guys, very much appreciated!

Here is a drawing of how I see the surge system working.

The feed pump fills the surge tank.
When the water reaches the upper switch it opens the actuated valve.
Water drains out of the surge into the display.
As the water level in the surge tank drops it activates the lower switch which closes the actuated valve.

Now here is the technical bit.
It takes 2 seconds to open and close the valve. So the lower switch needs to be at a height above the bottom drain sufficient enough that the water level doesnt drop to the bulkhead level in the 2 seconds it takes the valve to close.

This will mean that no air enters the pipework between the actuated valve and the surge tank and no air will be between the actuated valve and the display tank.

This shows the valve closed at the end cycle. I forsee a fair bit of tweaking once this part of the system is built. The only tweaking however should just be setting the right height of the lower switch to ensure the valve is closed before air enters the pipework.

 

[d3hree]

Yes, it's incredible the way Matt can develop such an advanced design for so little money. Truly an inspiration to us all. :thumbsup:

Dave.M

Dave youre a star...:beer:

Very cool thread. Your renderings are amazing. Very interesting stuff, cant wait to see more.

Thanks for the compliments Aquaph8, hopefully i can get a bit more done over the weekend.

I had thought that about the surge pipe getting air in, but as long as the outlet remains under water (i'm guessing even with the surge tank filling it will always be under the surface)
Then you get that vacuum effect the same as putting your finger over the top of a straw in your drink and being able to pick the liquid up.
Or in reefy terms, putting your thumb over the sucking end of a siphon tube and the water staying in there.

Pretty much Ush, the pipework between the valve and display will be below the water level. The closed valve will stop water above this level dropping down.

Yes, but that only works if there is no movement in the tank's water. Usually the least movement in the water that would either jiggle the drain pipe or cause flow across the bottom of the drain pipe would perturb the suction in the pipe and cause it to empty.

Hopefully the diagrams explain it a little better Dave. Or I hope they point out if there have been errors in my thinking!

I maybe wrong but i think Matt intends to put his expensive oppps i mean cheap electronic ball valve close to the surface of the tank that way when it opens most of the pipe work is already full of water there for minimising the amount of air getting into the tank . But if he aint thats one way of stopping it

Pretty much. The pipework should remain full of water regardless of the valve being open or closed.

 

[dave.m]

Thx very much for taking the time to illustrate this, Matt. I hadn't understood that you were coming into the tank from the side. I am wondering, though, if this design will provide enough of a surge. Perhaps a penductor in the tank would increase the surge effect (?).

Dave.M

 

[olemos]

Amazing graphics and build!
What software did you use for the graphics?

 

[D5HP]

Mind blowing.

Just got caught up...though I had seen your insane 3D work back in March.

I especially got a kick out of your wife's comments!

This build is without question one of the better ones I've read solely due to your willingness to DIY literally everything. I imagine there will be an inestimable amount of pride in in once it's running and your wife will probably tell all of your friends and family how it all works!

I look forward to following this one from across the pond.

If you don't mind me asking...what did you study in university? If you didn't attend: How the hell did you learn all of this?!!

I'm an engineer and I still don't think I would have even known who to call for a few of the things you've mentioned.

 

[d3hree]

Thx very much for taking the time to illustrate this, Matt. I hadn't understood that you were coming into the tank from the side. I am wondering, though, if this design will provide enough of a surge. Perhaps a penductor in the tank would increase the surge effect (?).

Dave.M

Hi Dave
Thats a good idea, I hope that the height of the surge tank and 2" plumbing should amount to a fair amount of surge...but I could add a penductor to increase the effect if it doesnt.

 

[d3hree]

Amazing graphics and build!
What software did you use for the graphics?

Hi olemos

Thanks for the compliments.
I use 3dsmax for modelling, photoshop for texturing + vray for rendering.

 

[d3hree]

Mind blowing.

Just got caught up...though I had seen your insane 3D work back in March.

I especially got a kick out of your wife's comments!

This build is without question one of the better ones I've read solely due to your willingness to DIY literally everything. I imagine there will be an inestimable amount of pride in in once it's running and your wife will probably tell all of your friends and family how it all works!

I look forward to following this one from across the pond.

If you don't mind me asking...what did you study in university? If you didn't attend: How the hell did you learn all of this?!!

I'm an engineer and I still don't think I would have even known who to call for a few of the things you've mentioned.

Hi D5HP

Thanks for your kind comments.

Whilst my wife may make a few jokes about the costs of this build she is as excited as I am and is compiling a fish list.

My degree is in illustration, specifically technical illustration. What little knowledge I have on this hobby has been gleaned from lots of thread reading and learning from mistakes over the years. For example the surge system is similar to one I read about in a thread on Michigan Reefers so I really cant take any credit at all.

Thanks Again.