May switch to BB because of sand storms, have questions

[raynist]

I cannot control the sand storms in my 75g SPS/Clam tank. I am currently using 2 Stream 6000's on a multicontroller.

I have sand covering my rocks and there are bare spots in the tank. I really like the look of the sand, but if I turn down the streams there is not enough flow.

Is it more difficult to keep the PH/ALK/Cal levels without the sand to buffer the water?

The last time I checked, my ALK was 9* and my calc was 400ppm. I drip kalkwasser and use the 2 part additive discussed in the chem forum. My PH is around 8 at night and 8.15 during the day (I may need to calibrate my meter, I will do that tonight).

Thanks
Ray Nist

 

[examiner]

It's somewhat anecdotal, but many BB people feel their alk demands actually decrease when moving to BB, and that leads to greater stability.

I'm of the personal opinion that a clean tank equals a stable water quality tank. And I know I find it much easier to keep my BB clean than I did my old DSB style tanks.

You will probably need to adjust your dosing practices, but to directly answer your question, no, I don't think the lack of sand leads to difficulty in maintaining stable parameters.

 

[orion76]

Re: May switch to BB because of sand storms, have questions

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6701867#post6701867 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by raynist
Is it more difficult to keep the PH/ALK/Cal levels without the sand to buffer the water?

My experience is the opposite.... in my BB system my PH is higher and Alk is reduced slower than when the same system had a DSB previously.

BB proponents claim DSB's release acids and bring the PH and alk of a tank down, and reported experiences of owners of BB systems, including my own, support this.

The bacteria in a DSB also consume a lot of oxygen and less oxygen = lower PH, especially at night.

If you do wish to keep a sand bed then perhpaps you can try a larger grain size, I didn't have much sandstorm problems with 2mm grade sand although any coral placed on the sand would eventually get burried.

 

[elephen]

I had to re-tune my CA reactor when I went from a SSB to a DSB, my alk demand is much less now. I'm not attributing that to making my tank more stable though, I think its like examiner said, I believe it is because I'm running a clean system.

 

[raynist]

Thanks for the replies. I am going to try to siphon the sand out this weekend. Not sure i will be able to get it all the first time though.

--Ray

 

[jiggy]

i scooped out most of the sand with a net.. and the rest i siphoned out.. u will probably need to siphon here and there everyday for a week to get the fine sand out..

 

[elephen]

I'd just get a nice plastic shovel and goto town...

Are you going to leave everything in the tank?

 

[shelburn61]

Can you remove all the sand at once? Seems like that would be a big shock to the system. I thought I had read to remove it in installments?

 

[raynist]

I was going to take it all out. Maybe I should just siphon out half of it now and the rest next week.

I planned on turning off all of the flow and then siphoning it out. I also planned on leaving all of the coral in the tank.

--Ray

 

[examiner]

I'd probably take the safe route and remove the sand bed in increments over a few week period. For a couple reasons:

#1, if there's any age on the sand bed, it's going to have some junk built up inside of it. Releasing all of that at once into the water column just seems risky to me.

#2, if you take out the sand, you are removing a large part of your biological filtration. (that's not a problem, as the bacteria population in other parts of your tank, i.e. live rock, will adjust upward to handle the load of your tank). However, if you have any type of fish load at all, you'll want to gradually make the shift from "sand filter" to "live rock filter".

A technical/scientific person could probably chop my argument #2 to pieces, but the fact is if you take out an established DSB in one fell swoop, you'll probably experience some type of cycling event. Spacing the removal out minimizes the impact on your tank.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

what if its a newer SSB, not an established DSB?

 

[raynist]

That would be the case with mine. The tank has been up for about 7 weeks.

--Ray

 

[examiner]

I'd say it would definately reduce the risk of any negative impact. 7 weeks is barely cycled, I assume you don't have much if any livestock at this point? All at once would probably be fine, or 50/50 with a couple days in between if you want to be totally safe.

I'd also venture to guess that the shallower the sand bed, the less impact total removal will initially have on the water quality/biological filtration.

 

[raynist]

I have one hawkfish and a couple of acro frags. The rock that is in the tank is from one of my established tanks as is part of the sand.

I have about 2 inches of sand in this tank.

--Ray

 

[mikeguerrero]

Raynist,

The key to controlling the sand storms is allowing them the mature. I too felt frustrated as I added a 3 inch sand bed in my 72 gallon reef.

For about 1 month I was always raking the sand back to it's proper location. Then as the tank matured the storms stopped.

The sand solidified in some areas creating a more stable layer of sand without the storms.

My PH in the beginning before I was growing macros in my sump would drop to 7.8 and rise to about 8.2 sometimes 8.3.

But since the growing of my macros my PH will not drop below 8.0 during the entire night to the early morning.

Then as the day progresses the lights fire back up at 1pm, the PH will climb to 8.2 and stop.

I drip calcium via a reactor that is monitored by a controller; shuts off at 8.0 turn on as it reaches 8.1.

Do you run macros in your sump?

Mike G

 

[raynist]

Hi Mike,

I use chaeto in my sump. I only use a small 20w CF bulb though.

Maybe I should give the sand more time to settle before making the jump?

--Ray

 

[examiner]

Just be observant when you are removing the sand. If things get messy, I'd let it sit at least a few days before taking out more. If it all comes up nice and clean, I don't see any reason you couldn't get most of it out at once. It's a new sandbed and a light bioload, shouldn't be a problem.

 

[mikeguerrero]

Raynist,

There is beauty in both barebottom and sandbed reefs. Here is my reef with a DSB.

72 gallon live sand and live rock only.... August 26, 2005

72 gallon today w/corals, critters and sandbed w/o storms...

Mike G

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

so sand compacts itself over time?

 

[mikeguerrero]

Eagles,

In my experience yes it does... Occasional dust busters here and there but not a storm; sand sifters help keep my sand from being too solid...

Mike