me trying to introduce a baby maroon to large female, step by step

[TOURKID]

Well, Ive decided to introduce a baby maroon to my reef, that houses an anemone (bta) and a very mean, very dominate maroon.

Ive quarentined the lil guy 2 weeks, and just acclimated him to my tank.

Heres the first pictures of new guy in the tank.

minute 1: nothing

minute 3: hes been noticed, female swam to viewing container, then back to her bta (shes NEVER out of the bta)

minute 4: lots of head butting the viewing container
really trying to bite. alot.

minute6: lil guy shivered like crazy for a second or two

now..

no more shivering has occurred. the female is biting the container ALOT, and freaking out. shes randomly checks on her bta, but lil guy has her attention hands down.

little guy is trying to nuzzle with her and follows her around the container

I will update anything pertinant. please, any helpful suggestions are welcome. I have a feeling he'll be in the container at least a week. but ill let it out sooner (or later) depending on girls behavior

 

[TOURKID]

about 20 minutes now

I think baby feels safe. too safe. the female rushes up and trys to bite and the baby doesent even flintch let alone submit. he knows he cant be hurt i think

baby has a tiny bite out of belly fin. must have gotton to close to the holes

female is in a constant fluster. she races to her bta, then over to bite container, then back to bta, at least 100 times now

baby pooped alot already. must be a nervous thing

 

[Ocnreef]

My opinion is that You need to fully intorduce him to the tank. He is getting a false sense of protection from the container and will meet his doom when finally released. It would be better for him to take his licks now before she gets adgitated even further. With him in the container he can not properly become submissive to her.

 

[angelsj247]

yah i dont think the container is a good idea.. and its small..

 

[Ocnreef]

By the way, nice looking tank and the great looking BTA. Good luck with the introduction.

 

[TOURKID]

ive been talking about this topic for weeks now and from peoples experiences, this is the best way.

but.. I can agree with this now. the first few minutes the baby swubmitted and whatnot, but now it acts indifferent to the females ramming and so on.

Anyone else have 2 cents or some experiences to share? Im willing to let it out tomorrow if its the better way.. but dont want to jump on anything to fast, just want to do this the best and right way. Ive heard alot more successes starting with an observation container.

Its small, but it looks even smaller in the pic. Its about 5 inches wide and ten inches long, gets plenty od cirrculation

oh. female is relaxing a bit more now. mostly in bta, but makes sure the lil guy isent going anywhere every few minutes

 

[TOURKID]

7:15... looks like the female hurt her mouth a little. little white mark. she ate as she normally would but I turned out the lights 15 minutes early so she can relax.

Im not TO worried about her mouth. it looks sore. kinda like when she dove into her anemone to soon and got stung. but Its most likely going to force me into early release of the little one if she keeps it up.

she is relaxing more and more though. Im hoping she eventually just doesent care about him, but like i said, Im going to have to keep an eye on her lip....

 

[TOURKID]

ahhh, ok this is where my quest started. this is a sticky at the top of the forum..

Add a new clownfish to an existing clownfish technique:
With having an existing clownfish in your tank adding a new clownfish to form a pair can be a little harder or in other words more dangerous to the new fish. The technique is basically the same as the grow out technique. You will want to find a small juvenile clownfish and add it to the tank with the existing tank. By getting a small juvenile fish you are not risking possible sex compatibility problems, e.g. two females.

Example: Existing 3ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ A. Ocellaris clownfish that has been in the tank by itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s self for over a year. We can assume this fish is a female based on size, age and environment. A Ã"šÃ‚¾Ã¢â"šÂ¬Ã‚ to 1 Ã"šÃ‚½Ã¢â"šÂ¬Ã‚ juvenile from a community tank is added to the tank. The vast majority of the time the new fish will submit to the existing fish with little or no fighting at all.

This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.

Paring Premnas species clownfish (maroon clownfish):
Pairing maroon clowns is much more problematic than pairing Amphiprion species clownfish. Maroons are notorious for being very aggressive towards other clownfish. They are pretty much fearless and will only back down from an all out fight when presented with the overwhelming threat of death.

Separation Technique:
The only technique I am aware of that works the vast majority of the time with the least amount of damage as possible to use a separation and slow acclimation process to introduce a poetical mate to a maroon clownfish.

First you need to have a large female already established in your tank before trying a pairing. The clownfish should be at least 3ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ from nose to start of the cardinal fin. Next you will need to do a little preparation before buying a potential mate for your maroon. You need something to securely separate the two fish in the same tank while still allowing the fish to see each other and the new fish to get water flow. You can use a clear plastic specimen container with holes drilled in it for example.

Now go to the LFS and find the smallest juvenile maroon from a community tank that you can find. It should be no larger than 1ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ nose to start of cardinal fin. Acclimate the new maroon just as you would any other fish. Once the new maroon is acclimated to your tanks water, place the new maroon in the specimen container. Let the two fish see each other, place the specimen container near the females territory. Carefully watch the femaleââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s behavior. If she is trying to attack the new fish thru the container, it is not safe to release the new maroon. Give her time to cool off from the disruption to her tank and addition of a foreign clownfish in her tank.

Now that the female has cooled her temper it is time to try an introduction. Get your favorite fish net ready and release the new maroon to the tank. If the fighting gets too bad you will need to rescue the new maroon and place it back in the container and try the next day. If after three failed attempts you can write off the new maroon as incompatible and you will need a new juvenile to try with.

 

[wwildcats04]

hey, usually at work we just throw the maroon in and watch for about an hour and if we notice a big squable we than seperate them, oh by the way are you the girl who comes to get the RO?

 

[stykthyn]

I always get a knot in my stomach when I see maroons trying to pair. they are so unpredictable. I say leave him in the container for another day and then try and release him. I she accepts him she will drive him head first into the anemone and keep him there.

 

[TOURKID]

styk.. that would be AWSOME to see wait. after thought. wouldent that sting the heck out of lil dude?

I read like 16 pages lastnight and it seems like im doing things ok. and female did calm down a bit after feeding time.

I was going to let little guy out today and see what happens. i guess i can wait another day. Im just anxious, and shes beating up her lip.

wildcats.. hey whats shaken. yep its me whats goin on. I was just there 2 days ago.. for water. I really need to get an r/o maker... but.. im thinking about a lightbulb and an auto top off for my next plurge... looks like all the rest of the maroon babys are gone. I cant believe the parents still look so super healthy!!

 

[ficklefins]

I have done this myself and you are on the right track. Introducing the male in a container is the safest technique.

Here are a few tips from my experience.
When the female is more receptive she will not try to attack the male but more or less try and swim with him. You will notice her swimming up against the side of the container with the male next to her. From time to time she will still attempt to attack the male but not as much as the first few days. Once you notice this closer type bond you may be safe to relase the male. Soo........

The best time for introduction is once the lights go off or just a few minutes prior to that. Once the lights go off she will head off to the anemone for rest and it will give him some time to look around and possibly explore the anemone. For some reason the aggression is turned down at night so he may be able to approach her at that time.

Make sure once you introduce him that he has a place to hide that isn't big enough for her to get into. He will probably retreat to it during heated times. If things get bad enough be ready to put him back into the container.

Good luck and here are a few good threads about the process.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=390607&highlight=maroon
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=397395&highlight=maroon

 

[clown fanatic]

i once once in your shoes, trying to pair maroons is a pain. thats a big reason on why i have ocellaris now. i lost two juvenille maroons to attempted pairing. the 1st attempt was a complete disaster. the little one, like you said, started to get a false sense of security in its container, so i let it out. BAD idea. The second attempt was a success! but the little maroon was soo tiny, under an inch long. im guessing that compared to my female maroon being 3.5-4" long had to do the trick, unfortunately i had a hungry hawkfish who decided the little maroon would be an excellent midnight snack.

i then tried to pair my maroon aka ice queen with an ocellaris juvenille, i wanted to set up another tank so if the pairing didnt work no biggie. i actually have a picture of it in my avatar, there might even be one in my gallary. anyways the method i used for the ocellaris and maroon was a basket with a hole cut from which the ocellaris could enter and exit without being followed. this was by far the best method ive used. the ocellaris came out on his own and would hang out happily in the hair mushrooms with the maroon.

 

[wwildcats04]

hey, yeah I've been working hard in the section its really starting to come along a l ittle better than when the previous person was in charge.. an RO unit is deffinetly a wise investment but I would get one from a home depot or something along those lines. ATO is another thing that is pretty easy and cheap to do if you dont mind doing a whole lot of DIY. your tank looks nice good luck w/ the pairing up, heres my set up, leave a comment nobody ever does, Im not liked here lol http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=850701
I'll see you next time

 

[TOURKID]

help help help!!! lil fish escaped its box while i was gone. i got a call right away and came home. the baby fish is behind the skimmer pump, each fin is a lil tore up.

the female is chasing it around and darting at it, but the baby isent submitting yet

should i put it back in the box or keep the fight going????

 

[TOURKID]

ok im done panicing for now. little fish is swimming up and down in the top corner (her fav spot in the qt tank) and the female is spitting rocks as usual. cleaning her pad, she keeps making sure lil guy is in the corner though. oh boy.. shes going near the corner *yikes* guess im cancelling all plans today

icequeen? lol mines named feebee short for f****** bi*** *grins* shes really really mean.

wildcats. funny u should mention that. the saltwater side is doing WAY better. its the first time i dident get sick to my stomach. for a few weeks there I could go there to identify any disease i ever heard of. Im really happy to see things on the turn around!!! even the display in the back corner there is finally cleaned up. very happy about it. almost banned the place for awhile there.

nobody doesent like you here, u just ran into someone that
doesent belong here. without this website I donno what id do lol

your tank looks really good!!! Ill post some of mine later.


update.. ive been watching the tank and trying to feed

the baby fish ate, but the female dident! The female is chasing the baby and baby darts out of the way. her only 'safety zone' that hes left alone in is behind the skimmer.

should I retrap him??

 

[Wryknow]

It sounds like he has a safe refuge behind the skimmer so I'd leave him there. If he's still eating that's a very good sign. It sounds like it may take a while before she lets him out of the corner.

 

[wwildcats04]

I would deffinetly let them do their thing dont pull him, that would be even more stressful IMO. thanks Im glad that it is starting to look better... I think as long as he is eating and what not he will be fine, I think the little glass box idea was a pretty good one but deffinetly keep him in for now esp since he is eating and has a safe house to hide in from her

 

[TOURKID]

feebees looking for him right now!!! so weird seeing her swim.

they were both breathing pretty heavy but it seems to have calmed down for now

no body damage. back fin has the worst damage so far. Ill keep updates coming. shes so not loving this right now!

thanks for the imput everyone

 

[dantodd]

Sounds good Maggie.

Trust me, if she wanted him dead he'd be dead. The 2 things you have to worry about now are that she could tire him out too much or he might get sick from the supressed imune system casued by the stress.

On the tired front watch for him to be gaping at the surface. On the disease front just look for the normal disease indicators.

The charge and dodge stuff is completely normal. Once they are a bit happier together you may still see that on occasion but he'll actually come back and "kiss" her on the gill cover or right behind it after he dodges out of the way. Pretty amazing critters really.

BTW: The white spot on her mouth could easily be where her slime coat was damaged against container. The slime coat damage could have allowed the anemone to sting her just like before she was acclimated to the anemone.