Metal halide or led
- Thread starter MikeOB
- Start date
Had LEDs on my DT for 2.5 years. In the beginning they were great. Coral colors were awesome, growth better than the corals under the MHs in the same tank. Minimal heat.
After 2.5 - 3 years they went downhill fast. Bulbs were dying, power sources dying, fans dying. Now that they are 4+ years old I only run them on QT tank. They won't grow anything but mushrooms and chalices. SPS will stay alive but very brown and won't grow. They just don't put out the intense light they did when they were new. Kinda like having 2 year old MH bulbs, they look bright, but all your corals look like crap.
My 4+ year old MH ballasts are still going strong BTW.
LEDs turned out to be a huge waste of money for me personally.
Hopefully with all the new LEDs out now, there are some that will actually last as long as the manufacturers claim they will. LEDs do have some amazing potential.
If they were cheap enough to just throw them away and buy new LED fixtures or bulbs every 2 years they would be great.
Best of luck with whatever you decide to go with.
I had the same experience. Started off with an AI fixture, and it worked great. After hitting the two year mark, bulbs burned out and fans stopped working (they get hot). The corals started looking terrible. It would've cost $250 per module to replace the bulbs. It was more cost effective to stick with T5 bulbs and my corals now look great! I think LEDs have potential in the future, but as of now I'll stick with T5.
In your situation, I would look into the MH or T5 over LED.
LEDs are the future, and the future is now
LEDs are the future, and the future is now
I was talking to a couple of fellow reefers the other day, and the discussion on MH v. LED came up. Seemed like some of the old timers were in denial about LED lighting. Now, I'm an old timer (52 years old), but not necessarily an old time reefer (only about 6 years experience). I can remember when it wasn't possible (or in some cases legal) to own live coral! Not sure about how MH came about (expensive today, but likely more so in the past). Looks great, but has some ancillary issues such as heat, etc. My experience with LEDs to date has been extremely positive - I would not go back, and look forward to the day when LEDs can be finely "tuned" to meet reef tank requirements. Arguably this time has arrived, if indeed we really know what we think we know about our ecosystem's requirements. Despite many person-years of experience with reef lighting, much of our experience is anecdotal.
DRW
LEDs are the future, and the future is now
I was talking to a couple of fellow reefers the other day, and the discussion on MH v. LED came up. Seemed like some of the old timers were in denial about LED lighting. Now, I'm an old timer (52 years old), but not necessarily an old time reefer (only about 6 years experience). I can remember when it wasn't possible (or in some cases legal) to own live coral! Not sure about how MH came about (expensive today, but likely more so in the past). Looks great, but has some ancillary issues such as heat, etc. My experience with LEDs to date has been extremely positive - I would not go back, and look forward to the day when LEDs can be finely "tuned" to meet reef tank requirements. Arguably this time has arrived, if indeed we really know what we think we know about our ecosystem's requirements. Despite many person-years of experience with reef lighting, much of our experience is anecdotal.
DRW
I don't have any doubts about LEDs capability to grow SPS, I've seen that they do. I DO have serious doubts about how long the same LED bulbs can keep growing SPS corals. I would like to see more tanks with the same LEDs for more than two years with no bulb burn outs and continuous color and growth of corals. Otherwise, it's not worth dropping $650 per module just to have to upgrade the bulbs for another $250 in two years time. For a 6 foot tank, that would be a $3900 initial investment with an extra $1500 when the bulbs start losing their intensity. Hopefully future R&D will lower costs and increase longevity.
chrishayes
New member
Yep, by all means, LED is MORE than capable of running at the proper lumen output for a typical reeftank but thats not the point here. The lumens/dollar along with "true" life spans not to mention long term reliablility between lighting types is the reason I say MH or T5.
As an example, 4 years ago my first industrial job that I ran was a Whirlpool regional warehouse that was just shy of 1 million sq ft with 30' high ceilings. Prior to this job, there would be no question what wed spec for lighting here. 4) 400w metal halide high bays per 50 foot sq of space. Now LEAD had come into play and there were incentives for large companies to build greener. With this came the Flourescent high bay. THis used 8 32w NO tubes with individual reflectors. Now we only needed 2 of these per 50' sq so youre at over 55% more efficient. Today, we would use 2 4 bulb T5 54w fixtures per 50'sq. Even more efficient and Brighter.
Now, im sure there are LED's that can be made today that you could use to cover the same 50'sq but it wouldnt be ANYWHERE close to financially feasible to do so. Just cause you can, doesnt mean you should. But in the same 6yrs it took T5's to become mainstream in the industry, there is NO led's close to replacing them.
ANd before you discount what im saying as its not a good parallel to reef lighting, I can assure you that all the tech we have in the reef world lighting wise came/comes directly from industrial/commercial lighting applications. No one's "making" their own lights for the marine industry, its all repackaged commercially available parts designed for a completely different purpose than growing corals. Then the niche markets adapt bulbs to work for our purposes. This is the reason I dont look at led lighting for reeftanks. Im sure large companies like sylvannia, GE and Osram are working on making led's for high intensity applications but there is NO cost savings nor programs pushing their use over the already super efficient T5 and similar. Once you really get the proper lumen output from leds, the cost is far too high in addition to the wattage used being so close to high efficiency flourecent that the only true advantage is not using mercury...
As an example, 4 years ago my first industrial job that I ran was a Whirlpool regional warehouse that was just shy of 1 million sq ft with 30' high ceilings. Prior to this job, there would be no question what wed spec for lighting here. 4) 400w metal halide high bays per 50 foot sq of space. Now LEAD had come into play and there were incentives for large companies to build greener. With this came the Flourescent high bay. THis used 8 32w NO tubes with individual reflectors. Now we only needed 2 of these per 50' sq so youre at over 55% more efficient. Today, we would use 2 4 bulb T5 54w fixtures per 50'sq. Even more efficient and Brighter.
Now, im sure there are LED's that can be made today that you could use to cover the same 50'sq but it wouldnt be ANYWHERE close to financially feasible to do so. Just cause you can, doesnt mean you should. But in the same 6yrs it took T5's to become mainstream in the industry, there is NO led's close to replacing them.
ANd before you discount what im saying as its not a good parallel to reef lighting, I can assure you that all the tech we have in the reef world lighting wise came/comes directly from industrial/commercial lighting applications. No one's "making" their own lights for the marine industry, its all repackaged commercially available parts designed for a completely different purpose than growing corals. Then the niche markets adapt bulbs to work for our purposes. This is the reason I dont look at led lighting for reeftanks. Im sure large companies like sylvannia, GE and Osram are working on making led's for high intensity applications but there is NO cost savings nor programs pushing their use over the already super efficient T5 and similar. Once you really get the proper lumen output from leds, the cost is far too high in addition to the wattage used being so close to high efficiency flourecent that the only true advantage is not using mercury...
Arkayology
Active member
I totally agree. LEDs will be the standard lighting for reefs in a couple reefs. I will be upgrading to LEDs in a couple years. Just waiting for the costs to go down/technology to get them to where they should be.
power boat jim
Well-known member
You left out one of the biggest advantages of LEDs over MH and T5-that is heat put into the aquarium. Since the lights are not 30' above the water the the heat transfer from those ligth systems is considerable. since swithcing to LEDs from T5 and MH My room temp has dropped 4 deg and the tank a 6deg.
The energy saved in this manner is part of the equation factored into the initial cost of the LEDs.
Yes all the lighting for the marine industy has come from other sources, but leds can and are made in just about every available temperature. As far as high intensity LEds are concerned three watts per diode seem to be plenty. I dont know what intesity it would take to light a 50 sq ft section of space but most aquariums are less then 10 sq ft.
Sometimes industry needs to recoup their investment faster then a hobbiest, afterall we not catering to stockholders and a board. Therefore, the use of flourescent gives a quicker return on investment. It also doesnt matter that if the T5 lights over a warehouse lose 1/3 of thier intensity or shift color in 8 months. That is what LEDs are supposed to prevent. Will it work that way? I hope so. I can wait the 6 years it will take to recoup my investment. Thats why I got them.
Indiana Reefin
Garrett
You can get some amazing deals on some high end mh and t5 setups due to the LED craze. I got a barely used geisman II Nova mh pendent with a brand new Phoenix for $130 shipped!! To me....Geisman is a standard for mh pendant quality. Not in front of elos but close behind. I got a $500 2 month setup for $130??? I would take that deal over and over again.I bet the seller regrets that someday....
Arkayology
Active member
BTW, pointing a small fan at the water of a tank with a MH more than takes care of any heat issues for many smaller and mid-sized tanks.
allsps40
New member
I will also be sticking with my MH lighting for at least a few more years. I know they work and grow sps, bulbs are easy to get and inexpensive to replace. I know LEDs will grow colorful sps I have seen it first hand and have a friend with a DIY LED light. IMO DIY is the way to go, much cheaper to build, replace or add LEDs. But Im am unsure of the long term. Most LED fixtures I have seen start to have failures after 9 months to a year, Solaris was the worst but I have seem AI and Panorama lights fail as well. Not to mention the stupid high cost of LED right now. I got my 2 Icecap ballasts and 2 Reef Optics 3 pendants for $190 total, cant beat that over $1000+ for LED.
power boat jim
Well-known member
So, it appears the question isnt so much will LEDs grow SPS, its one of will the LEDs manufactured now be able to compete with the reliability of MH and T5. If so many other applications can use LEDs (traffic lights to televisions) and get nearly flawless service from these items for tens of thousands of hours, why shouldnt the lights we buy today do the same?
It was stated by chrishays in an earlier post that most of the lighting components come from commercial applications ( I tend to agree). With that in mind shouldnt the systems we get rival the other commercial applications for longevity and reliability?
It was stated by chrishays in an earlier post that most of the lighting components come from commercial applications ( I tend to agree). With that in mind shouldnt the systems we get rival the other commercial applications for longevity and reliability?
insomniac2k2
Active member
LED's will last longer than any other lighting product if you implement them correctly. It's pretty safe to assume that if they fail before their projected time, it was human error or manufacturing defect that caused it.
Im not just saying this because i just drank the cool aid. It is a proven form of lighting. Anything that has an infinite shelf life is clearly going in the right direction for longevity.
Im not just saying this because i just drank the cool aid. It is a proven form of lighting. Anything that has an infinite shelf life is clearly going in the right direction for longevity.
Reef_Noob
New member
Check out this article...
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/we-know-mhl-works-led-can-work-better
Still feel LEDs are not "there" yet?
:fun2:
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/we-know-mhl-works-led-can-work-better
Still feel LEDs are not "there" yet?
:fun2:
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smalltime
New member
Nobodys questioning if led's work. There questioning that led's do not last there said 10 years of useable light. I've read numerous reefers using led's say they will get the initial investment back after 3 to 4 years of use. After 3 -4 years you have to replace each bulbs and possibly heat sinks to whatever. Where is the savings?
allsps40
New member
The big question that is yet to be answered is the real world life of the LEDs. Will the really continue to fire, maintain high PAR levels and grow sps? This is the unknown question that everyone asks. Time will tell and the LED users will need to keep reporting their experience. As of now yes LEDs grown sps nicely in the short term, 1 year.
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