MH vs LED POWER CONSUMPTION

[kcamp317]

I'm awaiting delivery of my AI sol units to light my 180. We currently have a big Hamilton fixture that has three 250W MH and four 96W PC bulbs. I think the electric savings should be pretty substantial in my case. Not to mention that the heat the MH fixture belches out all day will be mostly eliminated saving air conditioning costs during the summer. I also considered the cost of replacing the PC and MH bulbs at least once a year that will be eliminated.

On a side note, it will be nice to eliminate the cabinet sitting next to the tank that houses all the MH and PC ballasts and the huge amount of wiring that runs to and from there.

I thought about running somewhere today to pick up a Kill A Watt to measure the draw from my current fixture until my LEDs get here and do a comparison.

 

[rtparty]

Evolution of lighting changes rapidly so the ballasts, bulbs, and fixtures you buy today could be outdated in 2 years. The same will likely be true for LED which is still in its infancy (wrt aquarium lighting). People will move from this tank to that, and sell the lights or keep the lights, or upgrade to new tech, or whatever. We make judgments based on the long term of a tank but there are surprisingly few people who keep a tank running for 5 years, let alone 10, and even few who keep their equipment that long. LED is going to change, sooner rather than later. Few people still use the MH they had 10 years ago. VERY few still use VHO.

Basically all I'm saying is your new energy efficient lighting may pay for itself in 10 years but you probably won't have it for more than 5 before you move on to something else/better.

Now if you want to be a pioneer and try out all the new tech at its higher price, go for it! It's all about experimenting. But as a cost saving measure, I'd just stick to what I know.

This is my argument as well when it comes to LED's and their "savings".

Studies have proven that the average hobbyist stays in this hobby for 3 years. I have been it for 5 now and I have seen a TON of people come and go over the years. I think the studies show 3 years because there are those that have been in this for 20 years and probably pull the average up a little bit.

Guaranteed that 90% of the LED stuff we see today, won't be around in 5 years. People will sell it off before then and they might have made their money back. Others DIY and pre-built fixtures will fail before the 5 years and they will buy the newest and greatest stuff out whether it be newer LED tech or Plasma.

I am running a PAR30 LED bulb over my current tank and I like it. It uses 10 watts to light up my tank and I can keep SPS, LPS and softies with it.

If I were to look into any other type of lighting, I would be using at least 5x the amount of electricity and if I was using MH, I would have to buy a chiller for my 7.5g tank! LOL :lolspin:

So for me LED was the way to go. When I did some rough numbers, my tank will cost me about $5 a month to run it. The majority of that is my heater being 50 watts. I am in a basement that stays colder all year.

For most people there is a huge savings with LED's. For some they will actually cost more. Pick what works for your situation and don't buy into the "latest and greatest" nonsense. Too many people leave and even avoid this hobby because they are told they need the most expensive thing on the market to keep coral. You get what you pay for but at some point, you are being taken by some European dude!

 

[Pyrrhus]

One major thing about LED vs MH is the environment they are being used in. If you live in an area where heating is used most of the year, the waste heat is from MH is welcome. If you live in the south, where cooling is much more of a concern, it makes a lot more sense to eliminate the excess heat load wherever possible.

 

[jwoyshnar]

this seem like a very long time. I just upgraded my arcadia sereis 3 3x250w & 2x80w t5's based on my calculations my light will pay for itself in a year and a half , and i beleive i went with the top of the range light.. infact i know for a fact that with enough light for a sps tank holding 800liters of water my light is costing me $21 a month, my skimmer is costing 28, my old arcadia was costing close to 200 per month

Your statements are a bit confusing. You say your old light cost you $200 per month. According to that number your light based on running it 12 hours per day would have been 4000 watts. But your description says 910 watts. Sounds like you had something wrong there drawing extra current.
I get my figures with my halides running 750 watts and the LEDs running around 350. With the loss of heat that the lamps give off my heaters would be on a he k of alot more.(2-300 watt heaters). So the use of LEDs are pretty much negated during the cool and cold weather months of the year who h is around 9 months here. I use plusrite bulbs which are $10 a piece and change them every 9 months which is not a factor here either. With these numbers I'll stick with what has been working.

 

[tangstank]

This posted was started with a actual observation.
12 LED's 1 Driver consumes 1.5 Amps = 154 Watts
1 MH 250 Watt consumes 2.4 Amps = 264 Watts

I was told by major suppliers here that I will need at least 2 X 12 LED set to match a 250W MH.

This being said, the power consumption of LED is more than MH lighting.
Bulb replacement logic is meaning less, Solaris company also said LED bulbs last 10,000 Hours, how many have actually tested this? I'm not denying this, but I'm not buying this number straight off either. I don't believe LED's are maintenance free.

Have you ever touch a LED? see how hot it gets? Heat = energy wasted, if LED's are so very efficient why do you have to use heat sinks?

For a larger system, it costs more to run LED set up than MH in respect to power utilization. If you have 1, plug in your Kill-o-Watt & test this out. Support your numbers with some base.

By the way, the OP is my buddy who helped me set up LED Actinic suppliment lighting for my MH & I Love it. It is just not a cost effective reason to go LED's.

 

[nanojg]

So many holes I don't know where to start. 12 3 watt LEDs is no where near 154 watts!!! Do you own a calculator? I would suggest getting one they come in handy for these complex calculations. All lights produce heat that corresponds with the watts pulled and LEDs pull less than other lighting sources

This posted was started with a actual observation.
12 LED's 1 Driver consumes 1.5 Amps = 154 Watts
1 MH 250 Watt consumes 2.4 Amps = 264 Watts

I was told by major suppliers here that I will need at least 2 X 12 LED set to match a 250W MH.

This being said, the power consumption of LED is more than MH lighting.
Bulb replacement logic is meaning less, Solaris company also said LED bulbs last 10,000 Hours, how many have actually tested this? I'm not denying this, but I'm not buying this number straight off either. I don't believe LED's are maintenance free.

Have you ever touch a LED? see how hot it gets? Heat = energy wasted, if LED's are so very efficient why do you have to use heat sinks?

For a larger system, it costs more to run LED set up than MH in respect to power utilization. If you have 1, plug in your Kill-o-Watt & test this out. Support your numbers with some base.

By the way, the OP is my buddy who helped me set up LED Actinic suppliment lighting for my MH & I Love it. It is just not a cost effective reason to go LED's.

 

[Midnightsun]

12 LED's 1 Driver consumes 1.5 Amps = 154 Watts

Hmmm, seems like someone gave you false info. Almost all the leds in use today are of the 3 watt variety. 3 x 12 = 36 watts and not even close to 154 as you say. Sure there are some losses and such but at most, a 12 led system will consume 40 watts. My Maxspec unit has 36 3 watt lights in it and is rated at 110 watts.

 

[James77]

NM, was alreay covered in a previous post i missed.

 

[James77]

I was told by major suppliers here that I will need at least 2 X 12 LED set to match a 250W MH.

This being said, the power consumption of LED is more than MH lighting.
Bulb replacement logic is meaning less, Solaris company also said LED bulbs last 10,000 Hours, how many have actually tested this? I'm not denying this, but I'm not buying this number straight off either. I don't believe LED's are maintenance free.By the way, the OP is my buddy who helped me set up LED Actinic suppliment lighting for my MH & I Love it. It is just not a cost effective reason to go LED's.

The power consumption of the LEDs would be about 80-ish watts if you followed the major suppliers info, so they will use substantially less power than a 250 watt halide. I think that is a little low on the number of LEDs needed, but using that there is a 170 watt differencebetween the 2. At 8 hours a day and at a failry high rate of $.15/kwh, that is only a $6 a month difference.

I also agree with the10,000 hour claim, I have to see it happen to believe it. When some of the LED advocates are figuring up the long term costs, they seem to be assuming that the LEDs will have a 0% failure rate, or that componens, drivers, fans, etc won't fail. Yet they will use halide ballasts failing as an additional cost to the halide systems......again, not all of the advocates, just some. When the LEDs in a fixture do die or lose spectrum, replacement of bulbs is expensive if it is even possible.

Switching to actinic LEDs from VHOs was one of the best things I did, since that is a 6 month bulb replacement of very expensive bulbs, plus a savings of of 180 watts that was run 11 hours a day. That saves $200+ a year, and the $200 LED strip has almost been paid for, paid for already if you count me selling the old setup. For my 175w halides that kick out more light than any 250w bulb, the savings to go all LED are nowhere near being there for me. I think people could relaise more power savings by switching to more efficent skimmer and return pumps, as those draw electric 24/7.

 

[chimmike]

$45 every 6 months for 2 MH Bulbs. Now we are talkin business here.

what kind of garbage mh bulbs are you buying for $2x a piece?


Again, tangstank, look at your math. Assuming they are 3w LED's, 12 of them is most certainly NOT 154 watts. I mean, did you honestly believe what you posted?

Many fixtures now are using 1w LED's which obviously use even less power.

I can't believe this is even being argued, there are so many posts about this already that anyone doubting the electricity savings is cuckoo.

Oh, and if you put together your own fixture, you're saving a ton over an AI or other good fixture.

 

[chimmike]

When the LEDs in a fixture do die or lose spectrum, replacement of bulbs is expensive if it is even possible.

If one is handy, most high-end Cree LED's are $7-8 on a star. Figure less than that for most currently manufactured fixtures which aren't using the most high-end LED's yet.

So even over a 3-4 year period, if you have to replace 5-6, that's maybe $48 on the high end. Not bad!

 

[kcamp317]

The ability to vary the intensity & color, ramp up, ramp down, have moonlight control, and various "human appealing" options like random cloud cover and thunderstorms was attractive to me also. I think I will be very happy with my purchase once it gets here. Looking forward to it.

As it sits right now, my current fixture is using 1260W. The 4 AI Sol Blue units that I have coming are about 300w at full intensity. From what I've read on here and other forums they are rarely used at close to full intensity so it should be slightly less. In our smallish home the heat output is a factor in the summer with the big MH fixture. Sure its nice in the winter but the power consumption is compounded when the A/C has to run more during the hot summer months. Here in Ohio we get the full range of weather and temps. I'm sure this will be lessened quite a bit with the LEDs. I would imagine the two 4" fans running on the current fixture and the noise that comes with them wont be missed either.

I looked up a recent receipt for my replacement bulbs in the current fixture....$180 for the 3 250w MHs, and $100 for the PCs. Thats nearly $300 every 8-10 months that I wont have to worry with anymore. Maybe cheaper or more expensive bulbs out there but I always used Hamiltons in it. I can recoup a little of my money also by selling the current MH/PC fixture. It is a great unit after all and has many reliable years left in it.

I think all these factors combined with what I mentioned in my previous post in this topic will make me a happy camper.

 

[James77]

If one is handy, most high-end Cree LED's are $7-8 on a star. Figure less than that for most currently manufactured fixtures which aren't using the most high-end LED's yet.

So even over a 3-4 year period, if you have to replace 5-6, that's maybe $48 on the high end. Not bad!

Assuming one is handy enough to do so, and if it is a fixture that it is accessible enough or setup to do so.

 

[kcamp317]

I'm well rehearsed on all these "selling points" because I had to convince the financial minister of the house (the wife) to get on board with it too...haha. Its not too often we get anything major on the aquarium but I've managed to get myself a GFO and carbon BRS reactor and the LEDs are on order so its been a good year so far.

 

[Midnightsun]

Regarding lifespan of a led. In our aquarium applications it is too early to tell who's system will outlive the other. Basically, better cooling and good drivers will determine that.

I actually have a real life scenario at my house with led. Can't be luck of the draw as I have 2 of them so basically 2 independent tests. When I built my storage shed, I put in a led blinking light. (basically a single low power led with a resistor on it to allow 12v operation straight from radio shack) I installed 2 of them, one on each door as a theft deterrent. Basically they blink on/off 24/7 and continue to do so 17 years later. Pretty impressive lifespan so far.

 

[808Rob]

Great topic and I agree that it depends on your situation. I particularly have T5s and am planning on converting to LEDs because:
I won't have to spend over $200 every year for new bulbs
LEDs now lasts up to 50000hrs (which is 13yrs+ at 10 hrs a day)
You get a lot more par/watt with LEDs than my T5s
Some drivers can be dialed down to 75% of power so they last longer
I personally like the look of LEDs, the look is crisper

 

[kcamp317]

From what I've read, AI has spectacular customer service and a good warranty. And if for some reason one of the LED "Pucks" fails they aren't that expensive to replace.

 

[karsseboom]

So all you save in 6 bucks a month compared to the leds? wow olny 72 bucks a year not worth the cost and effort to go out and buy leds...

 

[nanojg]

Big savings is bulbs. But DIY LEDs are comparable in cost to quality t5 or mh fixtures, so cost really is a mute point

 

[grigsy]

In terms of energy savings, I would suspect that LED has an advantage over halides but I prefer halides anyway.

Even one of my friends who bought an AI LED fixture switched back to using his Lumen Max 3 reflectors and he says the same thing - he prefers the LM3 over LEDs anyday.