MH vs LED POWER CONSUMPTION

[karsseboom]

For me it makes total sense. I do not have any lights yet!! That way I save money on electric, bulb replacement, plus I do not have a $600 old fixture that will be collecting dust. In my area my electric is 0.175 per kwh. That is fairly expensive, so in areas like mine where the rate is higher we do get more bang for the buck then somebody paying 0.12.

As for the drivers. I just purchased 5 x eln-60-48D drivers. I will be running anywhere between 60 and 70 LEDs (I plan on maxing out the drivers a bit more than the old 12 leds per). Now those drivers are rated to draw 60 w max. Even with no physics understanding, if those drivers are pulling a full 60 each, this sytem can draw 300 w max.

you olny save 6 dollars a month! bulbs dont cost that much.

 

[bamf25]

you olny save 6 dollars a month! bulbs dont cost that much.

Bulbs don't cost that much? The original person who owned my tank had a dual metal halid with 2 x 48" actinics over it for a bit. Those actinic bulbs are easily $15 to $30 each. The MH are $40 and up for high quality bulbs. For that old fixture he was running I will go conservative and say I would need 2 x mh at $40 and 2 x T5 at 15 (the cheep side and likely way under). That is $110 every year, assuming only one change. I am doing a diy led with a final cost of about $550, a good mh/t5 combo fixture like I am describing above would be at least that cost. So lets call the fixtures a wash in price, and say I replaced my LED's after only 5 years, I am still $550 ahead, without taking energy saving into consideration. Is it not a ton, but it is money that does not need to be spent.

Now I asked the previos owner about his old MH setup, he stated his electric bill was almost 1/3 less when he went from MH to t5's (he had a ati 48" 6 bulb setup). So I am assuming he was running a 2 x 250 MH with 2 x 54 watt t5 bulbs. That is 610w fixture. The led I will be using will consume about 175w, for similar lighting. That is a large 435w difference. Tell me how I will not be saving $$ on my electric bill, and way more than $6 per month (my rate is about 0.175 per kwh). If those numbers are accurate based on my electric rate using LEDs will save me $22 per month, or $264 per year. Over 5 years that is $1320 in electric. So 1320 + 550 = $1870. I think that is a very nice savings mayself.

 

[dwl]

james77,

Try as I may, I cannot figure out how you are getting the $6 a month figure in regards to what LED would save you per month.
You list 2 tanks, a 120 and a 90 planted. Are you talking about changing both of them to AI led at a cost of $2100r is that just for your 120?
Perhaps I am just making the wrong assumptions here, but everything I have read seems to indicate that the AI SOL basically replaces a single MH bulb in coverage and illumination. Assuming you have 2 250W MH over your 120, that should be replaced by 2 AI units at a cost of roughly $1000.
Also assuming that you have 100% efficient MH ballasts (no chance) and that AI's claims of 80 watts used per fixture is accurate, there is greater than a 3:1 ratio of watts used by the MH than the LEDs.

Earlier you stated that you pay $12 a month for your MH and you would only save $6 a month if using LEDs, how is this possible if using 3 times less watts?

Thanks.

 

[nanojg]

I am planning a switch from 2 x 175 mh and 2 x 39 t5 to 3 x 36 leds and 2 x 39 t5s. I will only save $4/month in electricity but with bulb costs my pay off will be about 2.5 years. This is with a nice led set up with a controller and the best leds available.

In reality my electric savings will be more: I only used 350 watts for my magnetic mh ballasts and i will not run the leds at 3 watts each.

btw I only pay about .05 cents a killowatt!

 

[bamf25]

james77,

Try as I may, I cannot figure out how you are getting the $6 a month figure in regards to what LED would save you per month.
You list 2 tanks, a 120 and a 90 planted. Are you talking about changing both of them to AI led at a cost of $2100r is that just for your 120?
Perhaps I am just making the wrong assumptions here, but everything I have read seems to indicate that the AI SOL basically replaces a single MH bulb in coverage and illumination. Assuming you have 2 250W MH over your 120, that should be replaced by 2 AI units at a cost of roughly $1000.
Also assuming that you have 100% efficient MH ballasts (no chance) and that AI's claims of 80 watts used per fixture is accurate, there is greater than a 3:1 ratio of watts used by the MH than the LEDs.

Earlier you stated that you pay $12 a month for your MH and you would only save $6 a month if using LEDs, how is this possible if using 3 times less watts?

Thanks.

If he pays $12 per month for his MH I want his electric rate.

 

[Midnightsun]

If he pays $12 per month for his MH I want his electric rate.

All is dependant on your electrical costs. The $6 saving a month was calculated in post #29 and is exact.

I am fortunate to live where the electric rate is dirt cheap in comparison. I run a led system for the savings but not electric savings. The bulbs and the hassle of replacement are much more costly in my case and would equate to over 15 months of electric bills assuming 2 bulbs at $40 a bulb.

I also run led because they are thin and do not produce any heat to speak of compared to MH and therefore no burn or fire hazard. I also run them because I can ramp up and down over several hours and do moon phases that mimic nature to a T.

If I were to run 2 x 250w halides it would cost me only $5.20/month at 4.33 cents/kilowatt. :eek1:

 

[James77]

james77,
Try as I may, I cannot figure out how you are getting the $6 a month figure in regards to what LED would save you per month.
You list 2 tanks, a 120 and a 90 planted. Are you talking about changing both of them to AI led at a cost of $2100r is that just for your 120?
Perhaps I am just making the wrong assumptions here, but Earlier you stated that you pay $12 a month for your MH and you would only save $6 a month if using LEDs, how is this possible if using 3 times less watts?
Thanks.

This is for my 120 gallon Reef tank. My electric rate is $.15/kwh Here is my current lighting equipment and its electric usage:
2x175w Iwasak 15k on Lumateks:
6 hours a day at 183 watts x 2 for 30 days=66 kwh= $9.90

1x36" ReefBrite Blue LED strip:
10 hours per day at 28 watts for 30 days=8.5 kwh=$1.25

So in total, my halide light setup costs me $11.15 per month. Bulb replacement is $120 per year.

Were I to get 4x75w AI Sols, which is what is recommended for my tank size and height they would be off the tank:
4x75w=300w. I will be fair and put them at 65% power for 10 hours.
300w x .65= 195w x 10 hours= 1950= 1.95 kwh x 30 days= 58.5 kwh= $8.77

It is actually less than $6/month....it is more like $2 and change. It would be about $6 if I put my halides on for 3 more hours. Add to that.....the heater does not come on when the halides are on, otherwise it is 30 minutes on, 30 minutes off. So any savings are washed right away because the heater will be on more with the LEDS.

As for bulbs....they will cost $840 over 7 years, and actinincs should be all set. The AI setup is ~$2200. Selling my current setup would net 600 if lucky.....so there is $1440 towards the AI, but the electric falls far short.


My setup is not typical, in that I use these 175 Iwasakis, which outperform most (all i think) 250 watt halides. I also use LED actinics. I am redoing both my tank again, using a hotter pump that will feed everything so the heater is on less. I also am reducing sump size to use less heat. The planted will be planted no more, although that is not an energy hog. Both my tanks after this....sans heat on both....will run me about $25/month. Heat is an unknown for me, but my tanks and house run cool, so I like heat .

 

[dwl]

Yea, I wish I had a cheap electrical rate too...

I am sure the $6/month was calculated and exact, I am just saying that IF the LEDs use 1/3 the wats that MH does (and that is just the MH alone, I think there are/were other bulbs in play here too)...
I think I remember something about using 175w MH rather than 250w though. That would still be MORE than 1 2:1 savings if using LED @ 80 watts though.
I guess that at 2:1 the $12 versus the $6 would come closer to making sense, but I have never seen nor heard of any MH ballast running at100% efficiency. I would guess the best case would be around 2.5 times the watts with MH than LEDs.

 

[dwl]

James77,

Thanks for the reply and not taking offense to my post as none was (or is) intended.

So, I see, the big thing here is the number of AI SOLs required versus what you would use.

I would not consider spending the coin on 4 SOLs over a 120 either (I would run 2)... oddly enough though, even if you did that you would STILL be saving watts/$ on your electric bill.

Take the ReefBrite strip as an example, that replaced actinic lighting, correct? Exactly what did it replace?

Thanks.

 

[James77]

James77,
Thanks for the reply and not taking offense to my post as none was (or is) intended.
So, I see, the big thing here is the number of AI SOLs required versus what you would use.
I would not consider spending the coin on 4 SOLs over a 120 either (I would run 2)... oddly enough though, even if you did that you would STILL be saving watts/$ on your electric bill.
Take the ReefBrite strip as an example, that replaced actinic lighting, correct? Exactly what did it replace?

Thanks.

Before this? :lolspin:
I had 2 radiums on an HQI ballast sucking 650+ watts, 2 x 110 VHOs, and a 54w T5. By kind of mixing a great halide and the T5s, I still get the majority of the benefit. That was nearing $30 a month for that electric, and the heat was a pain in the summer to the point I had purchased a chiller....until I went the route I have. The n youd be talking $25 in electric and $300 a year in bulbs....

Believe me, I would love to be able to squeeze by with 2 Sols. I need a glass top, or some kind of cover for stupid-o the cat, plus my heat loss would be further aggravated by the lack of cover. 2 AI sols would change it up a bit though.....be about 7 or bucks a month, plus bulbs costs. But again heat is needed by me. Just like people factor in not running a chiller, I need to factor in running a 500 watt heat a few more hours a day .

I will someday have LEDs, with my next custom(hopeful) tank. I plan on heavy insulation on that to further save money. I just don't like seeing the broad statements that halides are a waste of money or obsolote, when the 2 technologies can work well together. But with the typical reefer going from the more-light-is-better halide setup, like I had- to an AI Sol....the savings could be very tempting.

 

[reefergeorge]

I built my led fixture for $450. It has 52 cree XPGs, 2x meanwell 700, and 2x meanwell 48D

My 6x54 t5 fixture was due for bulbs. That is $180 to replace. If my led fixture lasts three years I'm ahead of the game with just bulbs. I could care less about the electricity savings.

Plus I now have the shimmer.

 

[Tenor]

But if the heatsink/driver casing were causing the voltage to go full 110V it would be supplying that to the LEDs as well. This would cause them to instantly blow. Wouldn't he also get shocked if he touched the driver/sink?

Yes, if the short on 110VAC the house circuit breaker will trip but if the short on the output +48VDC then you will not even notice it even touching the case or right on the heatsink because +48VDC at few amps is not enough current to make your body feel anything different.

 

[Tenor]

If the short was on the output side from solder or a wire tocuhing the heatsink, it would be 48v, wouldn't it? Would you be able to feel that?

+1 right there. Remember this is a 12 leds connected in series and if the solder on 48VDC touching to the case (reflector) or the screw that tight down the LED star touching short between the LED+ or LED- to the reflector and now one side the 48VDC side will short the AC ground (I think they normally short the reflector to AC ground (earth ground)) will load more current but not nescessary to burn or blow on anything.

 

[kenjung]

My light is 125 bulbs CREE XP. the biggest draw for me to LED is clear X2 more efficient, I don't know where kilowatt is cheap. After the upgrade right away I see saving and I can light my tank 12 hours a day no worries of any kind. Before I was worried about heat, watt usage etc. No bulb changes is huge too, no fuss about bulbs I can concentrate on water chemistry. LED has high initial investment but bulbs and lense are cheap to replace. In 5 years time, I am keeping the electronic and heat sinks just replace the bulbs.

 

[Nanook]

I currently use 880 watts of VHO and 3400 watts of metal halide in 9 different bulbs. So, 4280 watts 8 hours a day That is insane and costing me a mint, but to put LED's over my 8ftx30x30 and 5ftx5ftx30 tanks would cost a mint as well. Decisions, decisions:lol:

 

[nanojg]

I currently use 880 watts of VHO and 3400 watts of metal halide in 9 different bulbs. So, 4280 watts 8 hours a day That is insane and costing me a mint, but to put LED's over my 8ftx30x30 and 5ftx5ftx30 tanks would cost a mint as well. Decisions, decisions:lol:

You could always just replace in stages, as bulbs need replacing.

 

[James77]

Ditch those VHOs for actinic supplements- the payback is real fast on them because you need to replace them every 6 months.

 

[cjcmcheek]

amps dont matter, its the wattage.

 

[Nanook]

You could always just replace in stages, as bulbs need replacing.

That is a good idea. Now I just need to figure out which fixtures/brands to start looking at for the tanks.

Ditch those VHOs for actinic supplements- the payback is real fast on them because you need to replace them every 6 months.

I really love the VHO's though, they fluoresce corals better than any other bulb I have seen.

 

[Tenor]

amps dont matter, its the wattage.

hehehe, why? higher amp will be higher wattage ==higher bill