Mhucasey's SPS obsession

Those new babies are stunners Matt, especially the green and peachy/oranagey/pink......... that one is :spin3:

I like your fourth point.............:beer:
 
mhucasey said:
4) I'm more skeptical than you may imagine but I don't think that you get the creme de la creme acro tank from light and water changes and fish poo only as is professed by some folks here. They may grow beautiful reefs with a simple approach but that extra little bit of color always seems to be missing, at least from what I've seen. I want the best, no compromise. Welcome to my insanity....
Click to expand...

Matt yours and some few others insanity, I think is pushing little further each time the boundaries of our hobby :-))

Since you are also sceptical , I always wonder what more the commercially available carbon sources ,could contain ,except the vsv ingredients? Is it possible to contain dead phytoplankton cells for example?
 
Good points Matt water changes are not the be all and end all nor is just lighting. There are many factors and good additives and giving the corals what they need with those additives makes a big difference.
 
gregkn73 said:
Matt yours and some few others insanity, I think is pushing little further each time the boundaries of our hobby :-))

Since you are also sceptical , I always wonder what more the commercially available carbon sources ,could contain ,except the vsv ingredients? Is it possible to contain dead phytoplankton cells for example?
Click to expand...

I think the key for these carbon sources is one that breaks down slowly so as to release carbon that is usable by the bacteria over a longer period of time. Additionally, the carbon source should be a type that isn't turned into cyanobacterial mass preferentially. The concept as I understand it is that the more complex the carbon source is, the more cyanobacteria dominate. Ie complex carbohydrates>simple sugar>ethanol>vinegar.

NP Pro is clear, slightly syrupy and has no smell. Aquaforest refers to it as a polymer which is of no help whatsoever in figuring out what it is. Its inexpensive so I don't worry too much about that.
 
gregkn73 said:
On the other hand ,yours simple approach , with just little extras, achieve also some amazing colourful acros! One more proof that at this hobby, you can find ithaki, following different route's :-)))
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He's gone to using Bigglesjuice and dosing Iodine though:lol:
 
reefwiser said:
Good points Matt water changes are not the be all and end all nor is just lighting. There are many factors and good additives and giving the corals what they need with those additives makes a big difference.
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Thanks! Here is an analogy:

My wife takes a whole host of vitamins because she believes that she should and they help her. I know most of those just pass through her body and do little, if anything. I take vitamin D because if I don't, I get this horrible cramp in my neck - it took a while to find that D deficiency was the cause. From daily cramping to zero for months once I took the supplement sealed it. Could I get enough D by eating more dairy? Perhaps. I know for sure this supplement will do the trick.
 
Yes people are just starting to learn that SPS remove more elements than just calcium and magnesium to maintain their health. While SPS may survive with just basic elements. They don't really regain their natural colors until we start adding the proper balance of elements to our reef tanks.
 
Matt.... for you and all the followers of this thread.

Concerning AF Probiotic Salt, the AF team posted in their forum that it Can Not be stored.

I posted the question if the AF Reef Salt can be stored.

Here is the answer:

We do not recommend to store dissolved saltwater.

Aquaforest

Unfortunately any of their salt can be stored. Bottom line, I will be back to Reef Crystal salt.



Best !
Daniel
 
mhucasey said:
I took your original question to be directed at ReefVet, thats why I didn't respond.

Ill let you know what I've seen - it might explain why I'm using their whole system. I used to dose Vinegar, then some vodka, and even mixed up some VSV. I had good success with those carbon sources over about a year plus time period. The downside I had was that they couldn't keep the nuisance algae contained fully and the color was good but not as good as I would like. The nuisance algae was largely brownish fluffy stuff, especially on the back glass.

I went all in for the Zeovit system, including Zeolites, Start3, and their bacteria - i wanted to see if i could improve the reef. Up until that time I had a chunky, dark greenish skimmate. Within a day or two of dosing the carbon source and bacteria the skimmate completely changed to a thick, white, dense foam and within a few weeks the algae that I had struggled with was gone. Corals also responded with big polyp extension. I could never get the system dialed in to keep the nutrients low and the corals alive, looking back now I probably chased the numbers a bit too much.

I switched to NP Biopellets then their all-in-one pellets and during this time transitioned to no water changes. When I doubled the system size I made up probably 120 gallons of IO water to fill it and slowly mixed the two and the corals weathered the storm but some struggled as was to be expected.

I transitioned to Aquaforest in December and upon dosing of the Bacteria once again the skimmate changed from darker to pure white. The corals have responded more positively than I can ever remember, and the little algae I had is pretty much gone, just a bit of cyano remains. As an example of what has happened with all the corals, I had a few polyps of a small frag of flowerpot coral that has hung on, shrunk down to the rock for the better part of a year. I keep expecting it to die. Then a couple of weeks ago it started to expand. Not only is it not dead, its coming back now.

I have changed large volumes of water before, using everything from ESV, Tropic marin, IO, Neomarine etc. I used to be able to do a water change with a few buttons pushed and a few valves turned. I have never seen a huge improvement from any water change, its part of why I went away from them. The AF salt may be partly responsible for the improvement in the tank, perhaps its the combination of that with the Calcium reactor, but I think its more than that.

What all that ramble comes to is that 1) we cant be sure of any one thing, but my opinion is that the tank has undergone a big improvement since mid December. 2) Dosing bacteria like this is part of "the system" and has a positive effect on the tank in my experience. 3) This system works better than any homebrew carbon source or pellet I've used, so far. 4) I'm more skeptical than you may imagine but I don't think that you get the creme de la creme acro tank from light and water changes and fish poo only as is professed by some folks here. They may grow beautiful reefs with a simple approach but that extra little bit of color always seems to be missing, at least from what I've seen. I want the best, no compromise. Welcome to my insanity....
Click to expand...

Matt,
I too have used homebrews and zeovit full program myself. I cannot express in words how much your experience and mine have come to similar conclusions... Well stated and explained :thumbsup:
 
nemodan said:
Matt.... for you and all the followers of this thread.

Concerning AF Probiotic Salt, the AF team posted in their forum that it Can Not be stored.

I posted the question if the AF Reef Salt can be stored.

Here is the answer:

We do not recommend to store dissolved saltwater.

Aquaforest

Unfortunately any of their salt can be stored. Bottom line, I will be back to Reef Crystal salt.



Best !
Daniel
Click to expand...

Aquaforest extended their answer:


I do not recommend because after a few days can begin normal biological maturation cycle (this applies to each salt)
That's why we recommend to dissolve salt 15minutes before water change.


Very nice from their team to provide me their rationale.

Daniel
 
plyle02 said:
Matt,
I too have used homebrews and zeovit full program myself. I cannot express in words how much your experience and mine have come to similar conclusions... Well stated and explained :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Thanks, I think that the hobby has a lot of gimmicks and snake oil salesmen, so it pays to be skeptical. On the other end of the spectrum is the opinion that the proper bacterial balance just happens and nutrients just appear from the food that goes to the fish and DIY 2-part. What is lost there is what people feed their tank plays a huge part in their success- several sheets of nori a week might import plenty of iodine for example. In my tank, the tangs don't really like sheet algae be it nori or green algae sheets. Every tank is different based on the organisms in the system, light, salinity, water temp, etc.


In all things I like to go by evidence. If you make a claim of how something has resulted in amazing growth or color in your tank, and your posting history shows your tank is 2 months old and has two brown sticks in it, I'm sorry, I'll be skeptical. If your tank pictures and posts back up what you say, I count that as a positive point in favor of the argument. If I see lots of confirmation in several places, it may lead me to concluding the same thing. It's the best I have in an anecdote driven hobby:)
 
nemodan said:
Aquaforest extended their answer:


I do not recommend because after a few days can begin normal biological maturation cycle (this applies to each salt)
That's why we recommend to dissolve salt 15minutes before water change.


Very nice from their team to provide me their rationale.

Daniel
Click to expand...
Considering that the salt is good to go in 15 minutes, perhaps you should just store heated water and then you could just dump the salt in whenever you need fresh saltwater.
 
mhucasey said:
Considering that the salt is good to go in 15 minutes, perhaps you should just store heated water and then you could just dump the salt in whenever you need fresh saltwater.
Click to expand...

Thank you Matt !

Yes.... I gave that idea a long though this past weekend because I wanted to continue using the Probiotic salt. Unfortunately it will not work with me. I was hopping that the AF reef Salt can be stored, but neither.

With regret I returned during the weekend the 3 buckets of Probiotic Salt.

Well.... it is what it is. Now I am enjoying a business trip in the sunny Florida after leaving Boston with snow and freezing temperatures.


I will continue reading your thread and learning from you.

Best !!
Daniel
 
nemodan said:
Thank you Matt !

Yes.... I gave that idea a long though this past weekend because I wanted to continue using the Probiotic salt. Unfortunately it will not work with me. I was hopping that the AF reef Salt can be stored, but neither.

With regret I returned during the weekend the 3 buckets of Probiotic Salt.

Well.... it is what it is. Now I am enjoying a business trip in the sunny Florida after leaving Boston with snow and freezing temperatures.


I will continue reading your thread and learning from you.

Best !!
Daniel
Click to expand...

Enjoy your time in the sun!
 
March. said:
I'm not understanding this or are you not supposed to allow AF salt water to mix for very long ?
Click to expand...

No, just once you mix it up you are supposed to use it in the tank. Storing it for more than a day or two could result in biological cycling in the storage tank per MFG recommendations. Unlike other salt mixes though, you can mix it and use it 15 minutes later without irritating anything.
 
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