Mike's 300 Double-D

[ace_92101]

Of course you meant Mike & Terry, as from what I deduce reading this entire thread, both are up to their ears in Reefology (new word) ...

Exactly. It's Mike and Terry's tank.

 

[prop-frags]

One of my very favorite threads! Thanks for sharing the bad with the good. All of us in this great hobby should be thinking of contingency plans for that unwanted, but possible leak You folks approach these challenging moments with the best attitude. Also, obvious to me the care of all things living in the tank being your highest priority Sending good vibes for recovery and transition to next stable setup....

Thank You lanshark for your kind words and support! And yes, the well-being of our reef inhabitants is our top priority. We learned a lot with the first failure in 2010 and were much better prepared this time. We are not out-of-the-woods yet, but will breath a lot easier once we get the temporary tank online.

Thanks for the information. So, in your opinion or experience, is this tank a total loss at this point or is it salvageable by redoing the silicone?

Do you have a future game plan or are you still planning / thinking?

There is no one local to us that has the expertise to rebuild a tank of this size. We are still in disaster mode until we get the temporary tank online. Once that is done, we can take the time to make decisions and plan the rebuild.

Oh NO! I read this thread and to have it happen AGAIN. I'm so sorry for you

Thank You for your kind words!

Sometimes I think that we as aquarists live for these moments. We're naturally problem solvers and tinkers. Maybe because it's so early and I'm not thinking straight but springing into action and making things happen, bringing people together sounds bad ***.

We get what you are saying, but trust me, no one wants to live this "nightmare" first hand.

Maybe some do, but I certainly don't. My thoughts go out to Mike, as it's a lot of work, time, stress and money to resolve this situation. Not to mention the possible loss of livestock.

Thank you for the support, ace. We truly are appreciative!

Of course you meant Mike & Terry, as from what I deduce reading this entire thread, both are up to their ears in Reefology (new word) ...

Exactly. It's Mike and Terry's tank.

Shouldn't that be "Reefophilia"?

Dave.M

No worries! We like the sound of "Reefology"... "Reefophilia" kind of sounds like a disease, LOL

 

[dave.m]

"Reefophilia" kind of sounds like a disease, LOL

And it's incurable!

Dave.M

 

[prop-frags]

And it's incurable!

Dave.M

LOL, Dave!

Disaster Day 7, blew by, but we made lots of progress:

The temporary tank was cleaned, placed on the stand and wet tested with tap water, and started work on the plumbing.

Our trusty little helper Tori is checking for level:




The sump room is looking a bit jumbled and messy, but at least we were able to get some lighting over the corals in both the shallow sump and the stock vat to the left.

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

Now this is absolutely crazy. I am so sorry to read/hear this. I will be praying you guys don't lose any of your livestock. We just had our 400g fail in under 24hrs of starting the return pump, and that was devastating even with no fish and livestock inside it. I couldn't imagine a having problems with a 300g FULL of amazing livestock. Talk about stressful.

Will you guys use marineland again?

I am not a professional stand builder by all means so take this with a grain of salt! It looks like on the back 2x6 going length wise, the stand doesn't have 2x4's under it to support the corners, but it does have the one in the middle. In rocket engineers thread all 4 of the corners are basically made into L's with 2x4's to support the top of the stand in all directions, it appears that your front of the stand has the L 2x4's but the back is just a single on the outside depth edge and the length wise 2x6 is pocket screwed into that depth 2x6. If that is the case it would be a good idea to have 2x4's added in those positions to beef up the stand. Also your 2x6 going length wise is cut short and the depth 2x6 boards make up the rest of the length. In the thread those length wise boards go the whole length and the depth boards are cut shorter than the total depth to make up the difference, I think that would make your stand quite a bit stronger. It looks like there may only be one center cross brace on the stand too. Rocket engineer only has one cross brace in the center on his design, but that is for his 75g. When going through the rocket engineer thread people with larger tanks were adding many of those cross braces across the whole length. For example on our build I used 5 for our 400g stand to make sure everything was solid as a rock and didn't twist, rack, bend, or whatever with all that weight on it. Again, I am not a professional stand builder so take this with a grain of salt.

 

[prop-frags]

Now this is absolutely crazy. I am so sorry to read/hear this. I will be praying you guys don't lose any of your livestock. We just had our 400g fail in under 24hrs of starting the return pump, and that was devastating even with no fish and livestock inside it. I couldn't imagine a having problems with a 300g FULL of amazing livestock. Talk about stressful.

Will you guys use marineland again?

I am not a professional stand builder by all means so take this with a grain of salt! It looks like on the back 2x6 going length wise, the stand doesn't have 2x4's under it to support the corners, but it does have the one in the middle. In rocket engineers thread all 4 of the corners are basically made into L's with 2x4's to support the top of the stand in all directions, it appears that your front of the stand has the L 2x4's but the back is just a single on the outside depth edge and the length wise 2x6 is pocket screwed into that depth 2x6. If that is the case it would be a good idea to have 2x4's added in those positions to beef up the stand. Also your 2x6 going length wise is cut short and the depth 2x6 boards make up the rest of the length. In the thread those length wise boards go the whole length and the depth boards are cut shorter than the total depth to make up the difference, I think that would make your stand quite a bit stronger. It looks like there may only be one center cross brace on the stand too. Rocket engineer only has one cross brace in the center on his design, but that is for his 75g. When going through the rocket engineer thread people with larger tanks were adding many of those cross braces across the whole length. For example on our build I used 5 for our 400g stand to make sure everything was solid as a rock and didn't twist, rack, bend, or whatever with all that weight on it. Again, I am not a professional stand builder so take this with a grain of salt.

We are sorry to hear about your tank troubles and wish you the best. We also want to thank you for the kind words and support! We truly are appreciative.

The stand you are referencing is the original (page 2) that was built by a local cabinet maker and the owner of the LFS. To say it was inadequate is an understatement and it more than likely contributed to the bottom seal rupture that occurred on our first 300g Marineland tank in September of 2010 (I believe the saga starts on page 12 of this thread).

With help from our friend, LB, and input from a structural engineer, we built a new, beefed up stand for thr replacement tank (Marineland custom 300g) using a modified version of Rocket Engineer's plan.

To answer your question, we will not be going with another Marineland tank. This is the 2nd major issue we have had with this particular tank (the overflow box peeled away from the glass two weeks after the initial install) and now this.

We do plan to rebuild, but haven't had time to make any decisions on a custom tank vendor at this point.

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

Thank You for the kind words Timothy!

Perfecto (Marineland) built this custom 300g tank with bottom eurobracing in March of 2011 to replace our original stock 300 which popped the bottom seal in September of 2010. Here's a picture of the left side of the tank showing the bottom eurobracing:

This is the photo I am referencing from the previous page, which I believe is your current stand that you have been using. This is your 2nd beefed up stand correct?

On the stand you just built for the 200dd, it looks like there is no center cross bracing at all? I know people over build their stands around here, but these look under built to me. Let me see if I can dig up an example of what people are doing for 180g on the rocket engineer thread. Again I am not a professional builder so you can take this all with a grain of salt if you would like.

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

Here is an example of a 210g stand built by member fairladyZ

And here is another for a 180g built by member NeveSSL

I would consider adding some center cross braces to the top frame of that 200dd stand so it cannot twist rack or bend (or whatever these stands do with 2000lbs on them). Especially if your not planning to skin it. I would also add one on the bottom. I know kreg/pocket screws work really well, but I wouldn't really want to rely solely on them to keep the frames square. Adding those cross braces adds a TON of stiffness.

Here is a photo of our 400g stand with the 5 braces on the top frame.

Again, I would like to emphasize that I am not a professional, and hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me on this subject can chime in. I definitely could be wrong.

 

[ace_92101]

Do you plan to go with glass again?

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

Ok, I just noticed I was looking at that photo crooked and thought the cross brace was the back length wise 2x6... LOL. I did state that I was not a professional, right?

I would still like to see a photo of the full stand though. I searched back into the thread and the photos of the beefed up stand are all gone besides 2 "in progress" shots, so its hard for me to decipher what it actually looks like. Are there any cross braces on the bottom of the stand to reduce the racking/twisting or whatever, being that its covered in cabinetry and not actually skinned?

Also one more question, when you guys placed the tank on the stand did you check to see if all 4 corners were making contact with the stand? I have seen one corner of a tank airborne, it was on a stand that was perfectly straight and level before the tank went on and then once the tank was placed on the stand (even with water :eek1 one corner was airborne with no support because of the stand settling or something. It was a 400g I seen that happen to, and because of the trim I almost missed it . You would think the weight wouldn't let that happen but it still did. My neighbor actually has had a 150g setup with one corner airborne for 15+ years, so that won't necessarily cause a failure immediately if it is going to fail. Being that there was no ply in between the stand/tank and knowing how much dimensional lumber can vary, made me think about that.

You guys have been such an inspiration to Jessica and I with your awesome setup and truly amazing livestock (some of the best on RC in our opinions), just trying to help out in anyway possible.

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

Mike after I just re-read my posts it looks like I am kind of coming across as a *****, LOL. With double 2x6 and center supports there is most likely ZERO movement. That thing is BEEFY from the "progress shots" I can see on pg 15 or where ever they are. Lets be honest if you had a structural engineer look at it, I am sure its super strong. What really had me think the stand was maybe the culprit was actually MYSELF looking at the photo the wrong way thinking the center brace was the back length wise board, whoops! I should have noticed the nice counter top off to the left, what a knucklehead I am LOL... :headwally:

Anyway, I am sorry if I came across that way. I had good intentions, I swear. We just had a failure and it is so aggravating, so I would hate to be adding any aggravation to your situation. I thought maybe I could help in some way. Sorry again Reef on brother.

 

[prop-frags]

Do you plan to go with glass again?

Yes. We have 2 acrylic tanks and they are just really difficult to clean without scratching.

Mike after I just re-read my posts it looks like I am kind of coming across as a *****, LOL. With double 2x6 and center supports there is most likely ZERO movement. That thing is BEEFY from the "progress shots" I can see on pg 15 or where ever they are. Lets be honest if you had a structural engineer look at it, I am sure its super strong. What really had me think the stand was maybe the culprit was actually MYSELF looking at the photo the wrong way thinking the center brace was the back length wise board, whoops! I should have noticed the nice counter top off to the left, what a knucklehead I am LOL... :headwally:

Anyway, I am sorry if I came across that way. I had good intentions, I swear. We just had a failure and it is so aggravating, so I would hate to be adding any aggravation to your situation. I thought maybe I could help in some way. Sorry again Reef on brother.

No worries! Do you know what caused your tank to fail?

 

[prop-frags]

The 200dd temporary tank is online. A good portion of rock, most of the fish, and some of the corals have been moved over.

 

[SPotter]

truly amazing!!!!! your temporary tank looks 1000x better than my permanent tank!!!!! how do you guys do it????

 

[A_CoupleClowns]

No worries! Do you know what caused your tank to fail?

Thanks.

Yeah, well pretty sure. AGE siliconed the external overflow on top of the black tint covering our back wall. The tint started to peel off where the external was braced in the middle. We have a friend who owns a 3M window tinting business and he told us in his opinion the external siliconed on top of the tint would never be as strong of a bond as it would be if it was siliconed directly to the glass. With the external siliconed on top of the tint we were relying on the tint adhesive to hold all that weight. Construction grade silicone makes a much stronger bond than tint adhesive I guess...

When we ordered the tank AGE told us that the tint was removable if we didn't like it, but when the tank arrived we noticed that the external was glued right on top of the tint making it permanent. Even the top and bottom SS braces are siliconed over the tint, so there was no way it was removable. Luckily AGE going quite a bit out of their way to make everything right. But that still doesn't cover all the time and money we spent setting everything up just to scrap all the plumbing and stuff.

WOW, the 200 looks phenomenal!! :thumbsup: I am with Steve, how do you guys do it?!

 

[prop-frags]

truly amazing!!!!! your temporary tank looks 1000x better than my permanent tank!!!!! how do you guys do it????

Thanks.

Yeah, well pretty sure. AGE siliconed the external overflow on top of the black tint covering our back wall. The tint started to peel off where the external was braced in the middle. We have a friend who owns a 3M window tinting business and he told us in his opinion the external siliconed on top of the tint would never be as strong of a bond as it would be if it was siliconed directly to the glass. With the external siliconed on top of the tint we were relying on the tint adhesive to hold all that weight. Construction grade silicone makes a much stronger bond than tint adhesive I guess...

When we ordered the tank AGE told us that the tint was removable if we didn't like it, but when the tank arrived we noticed that the external was glued right on top of the tint making it permanent. Even the top and bottom SS braces are siliconed over the tint, so there was no way it was removable. Luckily AGE going quite a bit out of their way to make everything right. But that still doesn't cover all the time and money we spent setting everything up just to scrap all the plumbing and stuff.

WOW, the 200 looks phenomenal!! :thumbsup: I am with Steve, how do you guys do it?!

You two are being way too kind, LOL!

Travis, glad to see that AGE is taking such good care of you guys with the replacement tank and upgrades!

 

[prop-frags]

Short update:

Day 16 and thankfully, no losses. We moved most of the acropora corals, the Regal Angelfish and the Spotted Bristletooth over to the temporary tank this weekend. Still have a few more Acropora corals to move, but need to figure out where to put them, LOL.

Here's an updated FTS of the temp tank taken right after the move so some of the corals are a bit peeved:



Happened to snap a decent pic of the M. choati, so had to share:

 

[Oldude]

I am really sorry to read that you guys had the leak - What a hassle.
Having done a "do-over" tear down about 1.5 years ago myself I have a pretty good understanding of how much work it is. Great pictures as always. Good luck with the restoration.

 

[prop-frags]

I am really sorry to read that you guys had the leak - What a hassle.
Having done a "do-over" tear down about 1.5 years ago myself I have a pretty good understanding of how much work it is. Great pictures as always. Good luck with the restoration.

Greg, thanks for your kind words - very much appreciated!

 

[davidfrances]

One of my 250 DD's blew a seal back at the end of March. Marineland honored my warranty and compensated me for all damages quickly and without a single hassle.