Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build
- Thread starter maglofster
- Start date
firefightered66
New member
Ok guys, i have read until my eye buged out of my head. Right now i have a 46 bf (36"x 18"x 18") What would you guys suggest for lighting and dimmable (pwm) driver. I wantto be able to keep clams. I will also be upgrading to a 75 or 90 later so i'll just add another multi chip or 2.
thanks in advance.
thanks in advance.
firefightered66
New member
By the way .... GET WELL SOON LASSEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lassef
Member
I do my best, but it is going slowly.
Today I might finally get to start eating solid food, and I hope to come home on leave over the weekend. And then I start my 5 channels multichip construction. Most parts will be home this weekend.
@ tomservo: Looks good
Sincerely Lasse
danielcassar
Member
GET WELL SOON LASSE!! hope u will recover very fast!
im going to ask you again regards the led driver since the meanwell drivers are quite expensive especially with the shipping included...i live in Malta. are there any chinese drivers which are good to have for my 10W leds project..im going to have ur advice to have 10-12 10W leds combiantion of whites and royal blue..
i just found a driver from the seller u recommended acrc http://www.ebay.com/itm/85-265V-120...372?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1aee34e4
is this good?
Thanks
daniel
im going to ask you again regards the led driver
since the meanwell drivers are quite expensive especially with the shipping included...i live in Malta. are there any chinese drivers which are good to have for my 10W leds project..im going to have ur advice to have 10-12 10W leds combiantion of whites and royal blue..i just found a driver from the seller u recommended acrc http://www.ebay.com/itm/85-265V-120...372?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1aee34e4
is this good?
Thanks
daniel
It looks great so far, are you going to be doing a complete build thread? I would be interested in the components you choose to use? I noticed thermal switches and what looks like a thermocouple, is that correct?
Regards,
Jeremy
firefightered66
New member
Can I get by with 3 20w 20K and 4 10 w royal blue multichips with 90 deg optics on the 20w and 60 deg on the royal blue?
TropTrea
New member
Your tank is only 18" deep so unless your raising the lights extremly high over the tank I would not recommend the 60 degree lenses. the lenses can very easily start creating a psycodilic disco effect if they are to close there subject especialy with two different colors of LED's. If after going without lenses you later decide to add them. They can be added much easier than removing them.
My other recomendation would be using 10 Watt LED's for your whites and lowering the color temp to the 5,000K neutral white range. This would allow you to use less white wattage and more blues. I would go with 4 10 Watt whites and 6 Royal Blues.
firefightered66
New member
My other recomendation would be using 10 Watt LED's for your whites and lowering the color temp to the 5,000K neutral white range. This would allow you to use less white wattage and more blues. I would go with 4 10 Watt whites and 6 Royal Blues.
Would this give me about a 14k MH look?
Would this give me about a 14k MH look?
Lassef
Member
GET WELL SOON LASSE!! hope u will recover very fast!
im going to ask you again regards the led driver
i just found a driver from the seller u recommended acrc http://www.ebay.com/itm/85-265V-120...372?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1aee34e4
is this good?
Thanks
daniel
AC-RC's drivres usually works pretty well in my experience. The model you suggest is maybe not the best choice, however. you can use it but you must first connect three pieces of 10W chip in a series (daisy chain). Then you must take four such daisy chains and connect them in parallel mode. That means all in all 12 chips. Each chip will be at a current of 875 mA (I assume that it is chip of AC-RC type).
AC-RC has drivers for 5 pcs of 10 watts chip in a serie (daisy chain) - both dimable and not. For 3 in a serie and one to one
Sincerely Lasse
Lassef
Member
Nope
Sincerely Lasse
I´ll think its a very good idea but it is always very wise to use dimable drivers - then you can adjust afterwards. With use of this type of lenses and a combination of 90 and 60 degree you can create a perfect solution in 3 lines for perfect blending. first line 2 pcs 10 watts RB - 60 degree, second row 3 20 watts chip - 90 degre, third row 2 pcs 10 watts - 60 degree. 16 or 20 000 K on the whites - Because you have 20 watt on the whites - its possible thtough dim to adjust. My opinion is that you always shall use dimable drives with LED - they are built for that.
However if it works with 3 watts and that type of lenses I do not know cause I have no experieces of that type of solutions
danielcassar
Member
Thanks for that help!
regards to the LED choice...shall i go with individual white leds and royal blue ones? or i can have the hybrid version 10W leds? im seeing that some of the hybrid versions have 3 chips white (10,000 - 15,000K) and 6 chips royal blue (450-460nm) and there are some with 3 chips 20,000K and 6 chips royal blue (450nm-455nm)....what do u suggest please?
Thanks
Daniel
Lassef
Member
Personally I think that combo chip is too blue and you lose the ability to dim in the lighting you want. I prefer to have the indvidual colours, and mix for example 445, 455, 420 and other wavelengths in the blue region. One must think of how to place and which lenses to use to get an even spread and no disco.
One way to get away from this is the so-called dream chip (5 channel Multichip Panel), which now seems to be available again
Sincerely Lasse
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firefightered66
New member
I am planning on getting a "P" type Meanwell driver but not sure which one. Would like to dim the blues and whites separatly. So with the lighting you suggested it would look like:
----RB----RB---
W------W-----w
----RB----RB----
Would it be possible to get 1 Large heat sink from heatsink.com to accomidate all the leds? Also where can a feller get ahold of one of those dream chips? Also .. Where is the best place to get these multichips in the colors i need. I have seen several on e-bay but not sure which is quality and which are junk....
Thanks Ed
----RB----RB---
W------W-----w
----RB----RB----
Would it be possible to get 1 Large heat sink from heatsink.com to accomidate all the leds? Also where can a feller get ahold of one of those dream chips? Also .. Where is the best place to get these multichips in the colors i need. I have seen several on e-bay but not sure which is quality and which are junk....
Thanks Ed
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I bored the fitting out on my metal lathe - I realize not everyone has access to such. You may be able to find 5" straight pipe at a plumbing wholesaler. They usually have cash and carry accounts.
I may do a build thread, I am really bad about taking enough pictures though. I'd be happy to make a build list or something. The 3 legged chip is a DS18B20 1-wire bus temperature sensor. Compatible with Reef Angel (which I just got) but apparently not in the 2-wire mode. I think I can get away with running the ground line with the ground for the fan, that should work - sharing with the LEDs is a bad idea b/c the RA is electrically connected to the other end of the drivers.
The thermal switches are obviously for failsafe - There are only 3 on there now, I expect to run 3 channels with an option to seperate the whites if I want, but this way the lights cut out if the fan fails or similar. These switches have a 20-30C cooloff before resetting.
And now for the meat:
I rigged up an HLG150-36B across all 5 channels, it's heating up now. So far it's doing very well. At full blast with the fan @10v, ambient 78F(25.5C) (according to the same sensor) we're talking about a reading of 103F (40C). I'm more than impressed! I will take a reading with the fan @5v right away. The only way this think couldn't handle the full 250w is if the heat pipes don't have enough liquid in them, but given the temps I'm getting it's nowhere near that point.
Temp at 150w (driven)
5v 158+F 70C I gave up at this temp - at 5v the fan is barely spinning, this is just a fart of air.
6.72v 130F 55.5C. Very quiet, just a gentle breeze
6.99v 120F 48.8C Actually a lot more air for your .27v but still very quiet
7.54v 110F 43.5C
10v 104F 40C I think this noise level could blend in with just about any reef tank.
12v 103.2F 39.55C
There is a substantial difference in airflow/fan noise between 10v and 12v, I expect that the temperature just isn't high enough to really get the juice in the heat pipes boiling.
The way I took the measurements was to start at the slow fan speed, let the temperature settle in, block the fan some to increase the temperature, and then wait until the temperature settled again. I then increased fan speed and took a new measurement once the temperature stopped going down. YMMV etc etc. I was at first taking measurements with the unit on it's side on the floor but I was concerned it may be different than vertical, so I put it on a box and a SS tube.
There's NO backing plate on the LED, it's mounted directly on the heatsink. With this type of heatsink, I really don't think a heat spreader would do any good, and likely it would simply add a few C to the final temp.
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How are you wiring your setup? I was thinking I would need 10 wires for the five channel chip, 2 wires for the fan and two wires for the thermal switches? 14conductors?
Are you wiring in fan seed controls?
How high above your tank are you mounting your fixture, are you going to use optics or lense/splashguard of any kind? I remember you thought Lasse's would block air flow.
Tom, looking real good, please post more pics. as you progress. Thanks---Rick
The temperature sensor is just a digital thermometer; the reef angel can read the value in it and can display it and do things like dim or shut down the lights if the temperature gets too high. The cost is pretty minimal; I paid like $1 each for a bunch of them. ebay was cheaper than electronics distributors, by a huge margin.
The thermal cutoffs in my design are to cut off the channels directly - I absolutely do not want live high voltage in the fixture itself. anything line voltage in my fixtures is a watertight heatshrink connection. I use a special type of heatshrink that has a hot melt glue lining; it bonds to wire like you would not believe.
The dream chip is screwed down with some 4-40 socket head cap screws. If you check the pictures I posted on the last page, zoom in you can probably see them. not sure if they show up in the scaled down images on the board, though. The screws end up just outside the 4 corners of the base. I'd like to restate as well, the base as shipped is not very smooth, I had to take some files to it to cut down the worst and flatten things out nicely. I was able to orient the chip so it would sit lengthwise on the heat pipes, so it makes quite good contact with them.
My fixture will be wired with some 12 conductor - I'd have preferred 14 or perhaps even 16 but there were compromises that had to be made. The only other real candidate cable was a hacked 22 awg HDMI cable (19 conductors) but they are only 30v. While I'm sure they could handle considerably higher voltage, I don't feel comfortable with it; I may make a fixture for a friend or two so this sort of thing is really important to me. Also the HDMI cable was like 1/2" diameter - huge!
I will have 4 channels + fan + temp. I haven't decided if I want to tie the blues or the whites together, further experimentation will ensue. I did notice a slight difference in the appearance of the whites when I was using the fixed 1050ma supply; one does seem to have stronger red.
Optics for sure; I have the small 44mm ones, they are already about the same diameter as the heatsink base parts and dream chip itself. The top of the fixture will have a fan grill and so will the bottom, with a cutout for the lens. I have another unit in progress, a 60w hybrid, that is mostly done like this.
Tom, Thanks for all the input,...really helpful! as I'm going to use the 8900 also.
I'll be watching for your updates. :thumbsup: ---Rick
I remember your pic of the top, I'd like to see how you have bottom set up with the grill and lens.The temperature sensor is just a digital thermometer; the reef angel can read the value in it and can display it and do things like dim or shut down the lights if the temperature gets too high. The cost is pretty minimal; I paid like $1 each for a bunch of them. ebay was cheaper than electronics distributors, by a huge margin.
I'll look into these further, but the controller I'm planning to use is not set up to give temp. readouts.
The thermal cutoffs in my design are to cut off the channels directly - I absolutely do not want live high voltage in the fixture itself. anything line voltage in my fixtures is a watertight heatshrink connection. I use a special type of heatshrink that has a hot melt glue lining; it bonds to wire like you would not believe.
I agree! NO high voltage to the fixture. I am going to use the thermal switches to interrupt a 12V relay cutting the hot leg supply to the driver. This is why I wanted 14 conductor wire, I want the TS. and fan independent of each other. I want the fan to continue running / cooling if the TS. stops power to the driver. *side note,...A engineer guy I know is concerned about the Thermal Switches. He thinks they would cycle a lot and they eventually weld themselves together, and not if, but when. If I get 70C TS, it sounds like the 8900 will keep the chip below that temp. How do you attach them, ...glue?
The dream chip is screwed down with some 4-40 socket head cap screws. If you check the pictures I posted on the last page, zoom in you can probably see them. not sure if they show up in the scaled down images on the board, though. The screws end up just outside the 4 corners of the base. I'd like to restate as well, the base as shipped is not very smooth, I had to take some files to it to cut down the worst and flatten things out nicely. I was able to orient the chip so it would sit lengthwise on the heat pipes, so it makes quite good contact with them.
Did you ck your other cooler to see if the condition was the same as the first, as far as filing goes?
My fixture will be wired with some 12 conductor - I'd have preferred 14 or perhaps even 16 but there were compromises that had to be made. The only other real candidate cable was a hacked 22 awg HDMI cable (19 conductors) but they are only 30v. While I'm sure they could handle considerably higher voltage, I don't feel comfortable with it; I may make a fixture for a friend or two so this sort of thing is really important to me. Also the HDMI cable was like 1/2" diameter - huge! Ya 14 cond. is what would be perfect for me
I will have 4 channels + fan + temp. I haven't decided if I want to tie the blues or the whites together, further experimentation will ensue. I did notice a slight difference in the appearance of the whites when I was using the fixed 1050ma supply; one does seem to have stronger red.
Please let me know what you decide, as my controller has only 4 channels also
Optics for sure; I have the small 44mm ones, they are already about the same diameter as the heatsink base parts and dream chip itself. The top of the fixture will have a fan grill and so will the bottom, with a cutout for the lens. I have another unit in progress, a 60w hybrid, that is mostly done like this.
I'll be watching for your updates. :thumbsup: ---Rick
Lassef
Member
I suggested 90 degree lenses for the whites and 60 degree lenses to the blue. I must have taken a painkiller when I wrote it - of course I meant the opposite.
As regards the quality you are right to that there are many variants - self I buy type "New 40mil 10W 445nm Royal Blue LED Panel for Aquarium", "20W 16000K LED Panel for Aquarium", "New 40mil 10W 450nm Royal Blue LED Panel for Aquarium "and" Epistar 20W 20000K Led Panel for Aquarium ". You have to try to find these products yourself because links are not allowed (sometimes) on RC. Tip - use a service from a famous company with headquarters in Mountain View.
Drivers: For the 4 blue 10 watts in a daisy chain - ELN-60-48p - adjust the current to 1000 mA with the internal pot. For 3 pcs 20 watts in a daisy chain this driver (that you need to build in withe a case) maybe work HLP-80H-36. Adjust the current with the interal pot to just below 2000 mA.
Sincerely Lasse
Tom,
You mentioned you will use 4 channels, what power supplies will you be using?
Thanks for all of the great info!
Jeremy
