noplay180
New member
What drivers are those
Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build
- Thread starter maglofster
- Start date
I think he's talking about LDD drivers. You can get them for cheap from Led Group Buy for about $7 each. Then all you need is a 48v power supply (depending on the forward voltage of each string in the multichip) and a PWM controller, like the Typhon. 4 drivers is $30, a power supply off ebay is another $30, and the Typhon is $50.
So $110 total, but you get dawn/dusk control too.
DrawnToBeaches
New member
You don't need to match the forward voltage with the ldd drivers
personally I like the 36v 9a supplies or near that.
Also I don't mind using a potentiometer
personally I like the 36v 9a supplies or near that.Also I don't mind using a potentiometer
TropTrea
New member
Okay so using the LDD drivers you are saving money. 5 drivers at 7.30 each, plus a $45.00 power supply comes to about $80 for the power source, cpmpared to 5- HLG-80H-54B as I was calculating. Therefore you can estimate the cost per "CAN" at roughly over $250.00 plus the controler cost. Now if your running these units well under max power the cost of an additional "can" comes down to around $150 because you can string several Cans off of the same power source.
Believe me I'm not used to finding DC power supplies at this price range. However the ones I have been working with in the past had federal certification for the use on medical equipment. Simularly the LDD do sound like a deal as they can drop the cost of many larger LED builds.
Believe me I'm not used to finding DC power supplies at this price range. However the ones I have been working with in the past had federal certification for the use on medical equipment. Simularly the LDD do sound like a deal as they can drop the cost of many larger LED builds.
Lassef
Member
No its not a LDD solution but it will works very good also. The problem with the LDD is that it can´t exceed 1000 mA. However most people thats run the 100 LEDs 5 channel multi chip are happy with the 160 W to get then. It provides about 12% more PAR per watt compared to 1400 mA. If you run each channel at 700 mA you will get around 24 % more PAR per Watt compared with 1400 mA. At 700 mA you put in roughly 112 W, at 100 mA -> 165 W and 1400 mA -> 250 W but but in terms of PAR per inserted W, you get about 3.1, 2.8 and 2.5 PAR per Watt. All values measured by me and valid for the original Dream Chip.
@TropTrea: Your right - it is not a cheap solution or construction, especially not in Sweden with 25% VAT on everything sold in Sweden or imported from outside the EU. Probably I have paid around 490 $ for each of my 3 cannons (with the Swedish VAT - without roughly 400 $).
But cheap was not my goal. My goal was to get a lighting which meets corals requirements, appeals to me aesthetically and that I can control completely. By concentrating the energy input to the wavelengths that corals need, I save a lot in terms of energy input as well. There was also a plus to have a light that is "wife approved" - the old one was just "wife accepted"
Sincerely Lasse
Last I looked LGB only had the LDD's with wires attached. Lot of guys are using the pin type for PCB's, and from Powergate, they can be had at 5.44 each or 4.37 for 10 and above.
TropTrea
New member
The austetics of the lighting system is something that is more personal. With my wife she does not like the idea of things hanging from the ceiling and prefers more of stream lined look, where the canopy covers everything. I myself like the look of natural wood so a lot of it would vary by how high your setting the LED's over the actual water level.
Kepping the higher as you do does mean more total wattage to get your proper PAR levels. But keeping them lower means you need more light sources to avoid the hard shadows.
As far as effieciency goes even running multiple single emiters the lower the wattage they are run at the greater the effeciency as far as light output compared to wattage used is. But build cost follows the opposite trend. When the multi emitters builds were first started we were limited to 3 watt emiters and I wonder if you would would have been anzious to go multi chip initialy if the 10 watt chips were available then.
Thanks for confirming my suspiocions on the total cost of around $400 per cannon. Now comparing that to going with single chips I prefer to use the 5 Watt chips so a 250 Watt build would use roughly 50 chips. Cost per chip is running under $4.00 dependent on the chip itself so we get roughly $200 in Chip cost. But if we moved to 10 Watt chips only 25 would be required at $6.50 per chip for $170.00 But the savings would require more cooling to make up for that $30.00 savings.
With the 5 Watt design cooling can be completly passave so there is little or no added cost and that is where any real savings are seen. The LDD drivers won't work because you need a driver that goes up to 3000ma on the 10 Watt Chips, and that goes to 1500 ma on the 5 watt chips.
As far as PAR goes I put little faith on PAR ratings. Mainly because I have found that the Cool White 6,500K chips give the best PAR meter reading per Watt. But they alone are far from creating the lighting balance that Corals love the most. On a fresh water build using only cool and neutral white chips I got 250 par at the substrate of a 75 gallon tank with only 120 watts. But that lighting would be close to useless on a reef tank.
Kepping the higher as you do does mean more total wattage to get your proper PAR levels. But keeping them lower means you need more light sources to avoid the hard shadows.
As far as effieciency goes even running multiple single emiters the lower the wattage they are run at the greater the effeciency as far as light output compared to wattage used is. But build cost follows the opposite trend. When the multi emitters builds were first started we were limited to 3 watt emiters and I wonder if you would would have been anzious to go multi chip initialy if the 10 watt chips were available then.
Thanks for confirming my suspiocions on the total cost of around $400 per cannon. Now comparing that to going with single chips I prefer to use the 5 Watt chips so a 250 Watt build would use roughly 50 chips. Cost per chip is running under $4.00 dependent on the chip itself so we get roughly $200 in Chip cost. But if we moved to 10 Watt chips only 25 would be required at $6.50 per chip for $170.00 But the savings would require more cooling to make up for that $30.00 savings.
With the 5 Watt design cooling can be completly passave so there is little or no added cost and that is where any real savings are seen. The LDD drivers won't work because you need a driver that goes up to 3000ma on the 10 Watt Chips, and that goes to 1500 ma on the 5 watt chips.
As far as PAR goes I put little faith on PAR ratings. Mainly because I have found that the Cool White 6,500K chips give the best PAR meter reading per Watt. But they alone are far from creating the lighting balance that Corals love the most. On a fresh water build using only cool and neutral white chips I got 250 par at the substrate of a 75 gallon tank with only 120 watts. But that lighting would be close to useless on a reef tank.
Thanks for the place to get LDD drivers. I had no idea they were available so cheap from anywhere but Led Group Buy.
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The luxeon M, which is around 11w, only goes up to 1000ma. The only 10w chip other than that is the Cree xm-l, and they have horrible color rendition, and efficiency goes way down at the higher currents. Any instance where you can use an XM-L you can use a Luxeon M.
And the sad reality is that mutichips are not as efficient as single emitters. The use of 1w emitters in mutichips lessens this, but it still does not even compare with a good Cree or Luxeon.
On the other hand, cooling 5w emitters passively is extremely hard. You need very large heatsinks to prevent overheating. At least 5 square inches per watt of led is needed, and that means a 250w array would take a ton of space with standard finned heatsinks. Nonstandard heatsinks made for passive cooling are very expensive usually, so you save by buying a fan.
Lassef
Member
I had folowing the same path, I got my first XM-L before I startef my 5 channels build. I have other reasons to use 5 channels multi chips. At a small area you have 100 LEDs and it blends different wavelengths very well - no disco. With 5 channels you can mix different wavelengths the way you want and you can control them.
Talking about efficiency. Everyone talk about how good XM-L is - but no one tells the true story. It says that it has an efficiency > 140 Lumen / watt - that impress every one. The true is that this is only valid for 700 mA and for certain colours and BINs. At 3000 mA (10 W) is the efficiency of the best XM-L not better than a Epistar running at 700 mA (around 100 lumen/W) At 700 mA -> 146 lumen/W, at 1000 mA ->139 lumen/ Watt, at 1500 mA -> 126 lumen/watt, at 2000 mA -> 115 lumen/watt. This is valid for the best - cool white U2. Cree itself gives no figures for 2500 mA and 3000 mA. For neutral white T5 is the efficiency at 2000 mA -> 100 lumen/watt. 90 CRI - white S6 is the efficiency at 2000 mA only 70 lumen/W. All figures calculated from this
With my multi chip - I have not measured any lumen/watt but I have measured PAR per insert watt and it shows a similar pattern with increasing amperage.
Sincerely Lasse
DrawnToBeaches
New member
The problem with your reason for not trusting par is that blue light will give out a way higher par than white/reds, blue light cuts through water easily and more so for violets. Par for me is a benchmark to meet once color temp is chosen. Par helps gauge your light intensity reaching a certain point of the tank that is actually usable by plants/coral. Also I bought all my supplies I'm sitting at about 260 total cost for one cannon. I also disagree with the needing more than one cannon for a tank, because it depends entirely on someone's preference and the shape of their tank and aquascape. After spending $300+ on a 180w Cree fixture that I run at maybe 105w I feel this cannon is a much better investment. I'm a pipefitter a d welder by trade and have several electrician friends that have access to nice commercial switching power supplies so cost is rarely higher than 30-50 for an over powered supply.
You keep arguing for single emitters and criticizing other people's plans/builds/ideas, just something to keep in mind this is a thread for multichip emitters.
Btw I'm aware when using a cannon you might need more than one for a long tank
my assumption is other people understand these should be used for deep tanks, sps wave pools, frag tanks, cubes. If I were doing a shallow tank or a long tank my preference is 3w LEDs with a few 50w multichips.I hope you aren't offended by this I just felt that you're against something this thread is about and it seems counterproductive to post it here
You need to look at their available stock,...they seem to go fast. If they are out of stock they will email the date that they will have them back in stock , so you can decide if you want to wait or order elsewhere.
maglofster,
Thank you very much for starting this thread. I have read the first 10 pages then noticed that it was started almost two years ago and that it is over 150 pages. Can anyone PM or guide me as to were I could buy one to test drive? I have a 220 tank that is 30" deep and regular units are not to my liking compared to my 250watt mh 14k de light. Looking for LED driver, multichip LED, optics and heat sink. Is there a place I get them all? I have been looking and testing leds and I hope by testing this I might hit the look I want for my sps. Anyone using mulichip have a 30" deep tank?f so how is it working out?
Thank you very much for starting this thread. I have read the first 10 pages then noticed that it was started almost two years ago and that it is over 150 pages. Can anyone PM or guide me as to were I could buy one to test drive? I have a 220 tank that is 30" deep and regular units are not to my liking compared to my 250watt mh 14k de light. Looking for LED driver, multichip LED, optics and heat sink. Is there a place I get them all? I have been looking and testing leds and I hope by testing this I might hit the look I want for my sps. Anyone using mulichip have a 30" deep tank?f so how is it working out?
I don't think there is a short answer to your question. Its like starting a book and paging to the end for the conclusion. This is a DYI thread, and all the parts come from various suppliers.
The thread is very educational from a multichip standpoint, and for a good understanding of them you need to read it,... and then post with your questions. Another thread that ties to this one for the power side of the equation is this one. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2222702
Good Luck!
The thread is very educational from a multichip standpoint, and for a good understanding of them you need to read it,... and then post with your questions. Another thread that ties to this one for the power side of the equation is this one. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2222702
Good Luck!
007Bond,
Thank you. I was hoping there was a one stop shop somewhere like reefledlights.com. I am looking to get the same penetration as MH. I wanted to test out one unit first. I noticed some get several chips for full range. I was looking to get a 100w unit or a 50w (Hopefully enough for 30" deep). I will read on. Is there a 100W multichip in the 16k anyone can recommend?
Regards,
Z
Thank you. I was hoping there was a one stop shop somewhere like reefledlights.com. I am looking to get the same penetration as MH. I wanted to test out one unit first. I noticed some get several chips for full range. I was looking to get a 100w unit or a 50w (Hopefully enough for 30" deep). I will read on. Is there a 100W multichip in the 16k anyone can recommend?
Regards,
Z
Hey Z, In this thread maglofster started, his friend Lasse ended up taking over for him to the current point of the story. It covers many different thoughts and opinions from a lot of guys in the know who contributed to the input, and like a good book some get killed off in the story :lmao:
I was planning on a individual 3W chip build until I started following the thread when it started. It will answer most of your questions such as a need for lenses on a 30" deep tank, full range spectrum, cooling,ect. ect. ect.
All I can really tell you is if you start it and follow it to current day, you should have a multichip understanding so with your questions others can answer. You will also see that answers to questions usually follow on the next page as you read.
Anyhow, if your thinking LED's, this is your thread!---Rick
I was planning on a individual 3W chip build until I started following the thread when it started. It will answer most of your questions such as a need for lenses on a 30" deep tank, full range spectrum, cooling,ect. ect. ect.
All I can really tell you is if you start it and follow it to current day, you should have a multichip understanding so with your questions others can answer. You will also see that answers to questions usually follow on the next page as you read.
Anyhow, if your thinking LED's, this is your thread!---Rick
hey there.
i have already built some experimental multichip lamps, and want to use this experience to build the perfect lamp for my tank. i plan 2 pendants with cpu coolers, without lenses. due to that fact, i have to place them quite low over the water surface and fear corrosion.
what measures have you taken to prevent splash-damage or saltcreep?
i plan on using an acrylic dome glued under the pendants, like half a ball. my question is, will this affect the light of the 4x10w multichips under it, like a lens?
the dome will be 5 inches across, and the multichips will be as much centered as soldering permits. distance from the dome to water surface will be minimal, maybe just a few inches.
thanks in advance for your answers,
greetings martin
i have already built some experimental multichip lamps, and want to use this experience to build the perfect lamp for my tank. i plan 2 pendants with cpu coolers, without lenses. due to that fact, i have to place them quite low over the water surface and fear corrosion.
what measures have you taken to prevent splash-damage or saltcreep?
i plan on using an acrylic dome glued under the pendants, like half a ball. my question is, will this affect the light of the 4x10w multichips under it, like a lens?
the dome will be 5 inches across, and the multichips will be as much centered as soldering permits. distance from the dome to water surface will be minimal, maybe just a few inches.
thanks in advance for your answers,
greetings martin
TropTrea
New member
You keep arguing for single emitters and criticizing other people's plans/builds/ideas, just something to keep in mind this is a thread for multichip emitters.
Btw I'm aware when using a cannon you might need more than one for a long tank
That asumption is something that I think we should not make. I see mention in many other threads as well as here of individuals considering multi emitters in the 250 watt range for there 12" to 16" tall frag tanks.
My argument is that when your over 24" in tank height the multichips are the best solution. At 24" it is a toss up which is better with personal taste being the big difference. For shallower tank the single emiters are your bestbet especialy not that they are reaily avauilable up to 10 Watt and will be available up to 20 watts hopefully by the end of this year.
It is emails like one individual asking how many multi emiters he should use for his "Frag Display" tank that is 26" X 36" by 12 inches deep. Shadows are not a problem but even lighting throughout would depend on how high he wants his cannons. Would he not be better off with multi single eitters?
