Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

I disagree with the "large glass dome" comment. Since it isn't focusing the light specifically like a 90 or 60 degree optic would, it is essentially doing the same thing a led with a "plastic" dome would do with the led angle, nothing. I've never had a "purple or yellow shadow" with my setup either.

It is tough to avoid a blue/white shimmer using optics however. With that said, hanging a multichip higher over an open tank without focusing the light will end up shooting a lot of that light all over the room instead of the tank itself. The led angle is still 110-120 degrees, and hanging that 10" or more over the water will light everything in the room.

I'm comparing a 90˚ or 120˚ dome lens for a multichip to a 90˚ or 120˚ lens for a 1-3w chip. With the latter, you get a hot spot in the centre, and with the former the spread is fairly even over 3'. With a 120˚ dome lens I get double the PAR, and with 90˚ I get four times the PAR of no lens. The dome lens has a lot of glass and craftsmanship, while the small plastic optics have limited ability to spread light evenly or concentrate it. It's like comparing an Iphone lens to an SLR lens. Small optics are cheap commodities designed to cost only pennies. Glass dome lenses would be better for our purpose, but they would cost hundreds of dollars to fit over each chip.

I agree with using a multicolor multichip, but unless that multichip can also include warmer whites or actinic violet in it, it is much less flexible and less visually appealing. I've run a Cool White/Royal Blue 1:1 only fixture for a few months, and several colors end up lacking in fluorescence. Many coral pieces become dull and lifeless looking. After introducing warmer whites along with CWs and 2:1 royal blue, violets, reds, and some green, my coral have never looked better.

I use 14k white, 465nm royal blue, 480nm blue, 420nm UV, and 660nm red in a three colour channel multichip run at 185w. Channel 1 = white, channel 2 = blue, royal blue, and UV, and channel 3 = red. The red is dimmed down to almost nothing and I use another multichip that uses a lot more UV and no red.

Nutrients grow cyano. My lights do not and have not. When said nutrients appear in the tank, the lights will probably grow the cyano too.

Cyano and candy floss algae grows in refugiums where I use Cree LED fixtures and plasma lights, while it never grows in the display tank. Flow could be a contributing factor. When I switch to a bluer LED, the cyano goes away and PAR is much higher.

Chinese "High Kelvin" leds also differ vastly from bins they have. One 3w "14k" led that was supposedly the same as another company's 3w "14k" led was half as bright and completely different in color. Using Crees from WW 3.5k to CW does look yellow on their own, which is why the blues are needed.

Again, the blues you need to drown out the yellow/green have a much lower lumen/watt rating so efficiency falls off. You need to measure the efficiency of the whole fixture and not just focus on the 25% Cree white numbers.


According to you, my tank should look like urine. Does this look yellow to you? I would challenge any multichip against this, and I have full Apex control of the color for each separate channel.

It's hard to tell from the picture, but if you are using 420nm, 450-465nm, 480nm, and 660nm, a low kelvin white isn't the end of the world. I group the blue, royal blue and UV on one channel, but they are so close that they don't need separation.
 
I haven't seen too many other DIY builds use this type of setup, but if you break it down, it would be essentially the same as 4 50w multichips in a foot long fixture. There would be no way to install the drivers into this fixture, and also have proper cooling for the leds. It's a very clean build which doesn't get hot, that could not be replicated with multichips.

IMG_20120721_210919.jpg


IMG_20120722_002821.jpg

I sell a fixture like this in my shop as a budget option. They cost half as much as the major brands and have 420nm, 480nm, 465nm, and 14k white on two colour channels. They run at 144w and are comparable to a 100w multichip and much brighter than some popular $800 arrays.

I prefer multichips because they are clean, simple and compact, but these lights have their time and place.
 
I'm not saying one is vastly better than the other by any means, however not knowing if that's the case does bug me.

If this the case you should use Cree chip for your tank.

The does not bug me, because adding one more chip solve this problem. However, adding more blue chip to a 7500 K solution (to get a whiter light) does not solve the problem with to much of wavelenghts that I want to minimize.

See I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges. I'm saying you have a 100 watt 20kK chip that's fine, now slap together 100 watts worth of crees of various chips (RB, B, CW, WW, etc) whatever the equivalent of all those little LEDs thrown together on one chip is, and compare apples to apples.

Yes - you compare apples and oranges because with the 16 000 - 20 000 K you do not have the same wavelenghts that you get if you use 7000 K. Your eyes just fool you.

For me its as important to minimize some wavelenghts as to maximize some others.

Sincerely Lasse
 
You get what you pay for with any LED. When you buy a $100 multichip you will have better efficiency/intensity than a $40 multichip from Ebay in most cases.

As Lassef has stated, it is difficult to remove undesirable/excess green light from a low kelvin emitter. Creating a multichip is like carving a statue, it is as much about removing what we don't need for reef lighting as it is about adding what we do need.

Using lm/w as a guideline is chasing a ghost. Manufacturers who focus too much on lm/w or peak PAR values have no motivation to use 420nm UV/actinic due to our inability to see it as "bright". Of course it is the coral that we need to cater to, and not our human vision limitations. The high cost of UV/actinic LEDs further discourages manufacturers from including them in their fixtures.

I've run many tanks with metal halide exclusively to keep it clean and simple, but the tanks always seem to look and do better with actinic supplementation. You will never be able to convince a T5 user to give up their actinics and retail coral venders thrive on them.
 
I use 14k white, 465nm royal blue, 480nm blue, 420nm UV, and 660nm red in a three colour channel multichip run at 185w. Channel 1 = white, channel 2 = blue, royal blue, and UV, and channel 3 = red. The red is dimmed down to almost nothing and I use another multichip that uses a lot more UV and no red.



Mr. Wilson, are you saying you have a single multichip with the colors described above, and able to control it with 3 individual drivers?
 
You get what you pay for with any LED. When you buy a $100 multichip you will have better efficiency/intensity than a $40 multichip from Ebay in most cases.
That was my point :)

The die technology used, grade (purity) of elemental reactants and phosphors, and other variables all come into play. I used "cheap China" instead of "Cheap" as most of the knock-off and/or poorly implented emitters are coming from that block...

Using lm/w as a guideline is chasing a ghost. Manufacturers who focus too much on lm/w or peak PAR values have no motivation to use 420nm UV/actinic due to our inability to see it as "bright". Of course it is the coral that we need to cater to, and not our human vision limitations. The high cost of UV/actinic LEDs further discourages manufacturers from including them in their fixtures.
Agree 100%

I've run many tanks with metal halide exclusively to keep it clean and simple, but the tanks always seem to look and do better with actinic supplementation.
I would go even further and say that it is almost a must, unless you use a MH that is so blue that it look like a smurf peed in the tank. Every time I try to run just a crisp white or bluish white MH only setup, corals suffer until actinic is addded. The Mh + actinic is more pleasing to my eye (still crisp) than a blue (XM 20K for example) MH. To that end, the whiter halides have far more PAR than the bluer halides to begin with.
 
I use 14k white, 465nm royal blue, 480nm blue, 420nm UV, and 660nm red in a three colour channel multichip run at 185w. Channel 1 = white, channel 2 = blue, royal blue, and UV, and channel 3 = red. The red is dimmed down to almost nothing and I use another multichip that uses a lot more UV and no red.



Mr. Wilson, are you saying you have a single multichip with the colors described above, and able to control it with 3 individual drivers?

Yes I use 12w, 75w, & 96w Inventronics drivers to power one multichip. I have another 3 channel multichip that I drive with two 75w & one 96w Inventronics driver.

I bought a Dim 4 (0-10v dimmer) to test out, but I haven't tried it out yet. For now, I'm using a Neptune Apex.
 
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That was my point :)

The die technology used, grade (purity) of elemental reactants and phosphors, and other variables all come into play. I used "cheap China" instead of "Cheap" as most of the knock-off and/or poorly implented emitters are coming from that block...

Agree 100%

I would go even further and say that it is almost a must, unless you use a MH that is so blue that it look like a smurf peed in the tank. Every time I try to run just a crisp white or bluish white MH only setup, corals suffer until actinic is addded. The Mh + actinic is more pleasing to my eye (still crisp) than a blue (XM 20K for example) MH. To that end, the whiter halides have far more PAR than the bluer halides to begin with.

What! three "I agree" responses in one post? Is it too late for me to change my opinion :)
 
Thanks, The DIM4 is a interesting controller. With its abilities and cost, its a cool DIY led controller. Can I ask where do you find the chips you describe.
 
Thanks, The DIM4 is a interesting controller. With its abilities and cost, its a cool DIY led controller. Can I ask where do you find the chips you describe.

The only thing the DIM4 lacks is a lunar phase. I may source out another DIY Arduino controller (perhaps the Jarduino) to get the lunar phase and add DC pump speed control.

As for the multichips, I can't post the source on RC. The version with 30% UV costs almost double that of the version with 10% red and only 10% UV. There seems to be a lot of red in the 14k chip so the 660nm chips don't seem necessary. There is a value in using them during dawn and dusk for unique colours in the fish and coral.
 
The only thing the DIM4 lacks is a lunar phase. I may source out another DIY Arduino controller (perhaps the Jarduino) to get the lunar phase and add DC pump speed control.

I can help you with the lunar phase control, but it would be BASCOM-AVR based, not C (arduino). I (years ago) built code for sunrise/set (including the various twilight times) and lunar information for any place on the planet. Since then I have moved the code form Vb to BASCOM... and am considering moving it back to .NET. I have no problem (and thus considering) using a PC to control the lighting and can expose far more functionality than I can with even a large AVR.

Still waiting for my DC pumps... I will do away with the Dart, and Velocity T4s. Super excited (I mean shoot Black Bart with a Daisy Red Rider but instead shoot your eye out in a pink Easter bunny suit excited) to avoid the 3-phase whine that has kept me from using an AC VFD (though I have one on my drill press and one on my lathe). I honestly can't wait to get my hands on them. It may even be worth a trip to the other side of the Lake for a beer and a visit... Except, don't we need passports for that now?

Hope to finish work on the NEMA 18 switch HOA control panel this week and embark on the LED adventure in the next week or two. I was considering a multiple color, tightly grouped custom MCPCB and had not considered the high density chips. I was not too impressed with the Oprhec pendant I saw and was under the impression that most of the HP high density chips were lagging behind with spectral output.

Not talked to Paul in a few weeks... and hope he is doing well.
 
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I can help you with the lunar phase control, but it would be BASCOM-AVR based, not C (arduino).

Still waiting for my DC pumps... I will do away with the Dart, and Velocity T4s. Super excited (I mean shoot Black Bart with a Daisy Red Rider but instead shoot your eye out in a pink Raster bunny suit excited) to avoid the 3-phase whine that has kept me from using an AC VFD (though I have one on my drill press and one on my lathe).

Hope to finish work on the NEMA 18 switch HOA control panel this week and embark on the LED adventure in the next week or two. I was considering a multiple color, tightly grouped custom MCPCB and had not considered the high density chips. I was not too impressed with the Oprhec pendant I saw and was under the impression that most of the HP high density chips were lagging behind with spectral output.

See, this is the beauty of RC, we can interrupt a high traffic thread with a completely unrelated topic :)

You will love the Waveline pump, although I haven't used the 10,000 yet. I replaced a bunch of Velocity T4s and noisy Iwakis. I've used Abyzz and Blue Eco as well, but they are high voltage (400v) and a lot more expensive.

Send me an email about your controller. I need something that is cheap, simple and can dim three LED channels 0-10v analog, and maybe four channels 0-10v for pumps. A lunar phase would be great. I don't need PH, ORP, temp. etc, but some extra timers would be useful.
 
As someone who has seen multiple Chinese leds from multiple bins, I can say firsthand that they vary greatly. One of the worst in output I've seen to date were epistar 14k leds. One epistar 3w "14k" compared to my Cree XT-E CW at 1.3mah is about 1/6th of the light output. I'm not kidding, it's that bad.

Who did you measured that? PAR, Lumen or what? Figures? Did you run them at the same current?


The cpu heatsink requirement for a multichip is also a co ncern. That is some serious heat if the fan were to fail, and you would never know in an enclosed fixture.

The best mid point for a build between multichip or 3w to me, is closely placed, 3w led clusters running at close to max current. I have 48leds of 180 watts of Crees and Luxeons running in a 12"x12" case with heatsink. The output is truly impressive over my 34 gallon.

3 multichips within the same enclosure, would be a major heat concern, and I don't think it would even be possible safely. The output may not even be as strong, and would lack the 420nm actinics and other colors I used.

The heat transmitted from Cree and "multichips" is nearly the same in my opion. I have 5 Cree XL-M running att 1900 mA (measured) - total FV 16.2 V (measured) gives 30.7 Watts consumtion. I have also two "20 watts" Epistar (445 and 455 nm) mount at a exactly identical heatsink. They have a FV at 21.3 (measured) and a current at 1700 mA (measured) - 36 Watt. The heatsink with the Cree measuring 34 C, the one with the Epileds 35 C. No difference with other words.

Sincerely Lasse
 
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To complete the journey into OT land...

12x24 Hammond NEMA enclosure, 18 circuits, 18 breakers, 18 relays for 18 inputs from automation devices, 36 status indicators to status of 18 breakers and 18 outputs with 18 HOA switches for override and 6 GFCIs with dedicated indicators and... of course 18 current monitors.

Why? I have no idea, but I enjoy projects like this. Some of the bits and pieces..

NEMA_Teaser1.jpg


NEMA_Teaser2.jpg


NEMA_Teaser3.jpg


That said... now you have me rethinking my LED project and reconsidering dense chips instead of discrete emitters.
 
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The heat transmitted from Cree and "multichips" is nearly the same in my

The HEAT transfer to an ideal heatsink is purely a function of the electrical efficiency of the emitter. Lower overall electrical efficiency means less energy is converted to photon energy and more to heat at the die.

The real world differs due to the heat density of the multi-chip vs the single emitter. When heat is spread over a larger footprint, it is easier to move away from the critical area. The high density chips need much better thermal management (heatsinking) due to the density.
 
Consider using 2x 50W (60W) multichips in place of the 100W multichip. For example 1x60W hybrid and 1x50W 16000K is a good balance for each section. If you need more power you can overdrive the 60W to 70 or 80 watts.

@Ronreef
Which hybrid royal blue or attnic
 
I really do not understand: first take a source arround 6500 K, discover that it´s to yellow for your taste, compensate this through adding monochome sources in the blue spectra. To get a "marine white" feeling you had to add 2 blue to one white. Now the monochrome blue source wash out the other colors. Now add other monochrome sources or sources wtih lot of green, orange and red. every source is thin point source and waves ia able to create a "disco" effects.

I thought that this was not a good idea so I look for chip with higher Kelvin temperature because I understand that the blue peak that you have in every white LED should be more prominent and greater at higher Kelvin temperatures. If I found that - I should not need to compesate with so much RB and the colors should not be "washed out". For me it works with the multichip´s and I have not need to put in other colors in my LED array. I have a mix of 10 000 and 16 000 and RB (455 nm) in my array. 2 whites to 1 blue.

The photos I attach is not great photos but they show how the colors appear in my tank. They are not manipulated at all - only rezised

sunburst.jpg ricordea.jpg pyamas.jpg

Sincerely Lasse
 
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